caissa Posted February 7, 2019 Share #681 Posted February 7, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) The SL won me over because it feels like an old R camera. I mean haptics. I would really like to see a comparison of how the current cameras "feel". Their rubber surfaces look alike from far away, but close-up feel very different. And if you have to hold a camera for several hours every day, then this contact counts. Maybe still too early because hardly anybody has yet touched a S1 or S1R. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 7, 2019 Posted February 7, 2019 Hi caissa, Take a look here New Panasonic Full Frame with SL Mount?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
sillbeers15 Posted February 8, 2019 Share #682 Posted February 8, 2019 The only thing I am keen to find out is the S1/S1R AF-C tracking capability. I do not expect it to be the best AF tracking in the industry but looking forward to a useable and fairly accurate tracking when compared to the A9, Z7 & other current FF mirrorless cameras especially from the decent AF tracking reviews of G9. I hope that production versions and later firmware updates will not disappoint as this will be a close indicator of SL2’s AF Tracking capacity to come later in 2019 since Leica camera’s AF is clearly a development by Panasonic. Since there is body stability on S1/S1R, we can pretty certain expect the same on the coming SL2. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_w Posted February 8, 2019 Share #683 Posted February 8, 2019 (edited) On 2/6/2019 at 7:49 PM, thighslapper said: Sony, Canon, Nikon and now Panasonic all individually have some ingredients of the 'perfect' mirrorless FF camera ... but to date no-one has managed to combine them ..... and certainly not with the simplicity of use of an SL. Of these competitors, I would argue Canon has the most compelling offering for anyone without previous affiliation. Great 50/1.2 lens according to reports, nice balance in the hand re weight and size, AF that is fast and accurate even at f1.2. Not sure about performance adapted M and R lenses yet -- doesn't seem to be any reports available. Frankly, I would pull the trigger if I were not waiting (impatiently) to see Leica's response. When will the "other shoe" fall? Edited February 8, 2019 by rob_w Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin B Posted February 8, 2019 Share #684 Posted February 8, 2019 2 hours ago, rob_w said: Of these competitors, I would argue Canon has the most compelling offering for anyone without previous affiliation. Great 50/1.2 lens according to reports, nice balance in the hand re weight and size, AF that is fast and accurate even at f1.2. Not sure about performance adapted M and R lenses yet -- doesn't seem to be any reports available. Frankly, I would pull the trigger if I were not waiting (impatiently) to see Leica's response. When will the "other shoe" fall? Reports are available about this, and the Canon R system is the worst currently compared to the Nikon Z and Panasonic S MLCs for adapting M lenses. The Canon R has the thickest sensor cover glass of all of them! Different story for adapting Leica R lenses since they are made for SLR systems and can "live" with a thicker sensor glass cover. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boojay Posted February 8, 2019 Share #685 Posted February 8, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, rob_w said: Of these competitors, I would argue Canon has the most compelling offering for anyone without previous affiliation. Great 50/1.2 lens according to reports, nice balance in the hand re weight and size, AF that is fast and accurate even at f1.2. Not sure about performance adapted M and R lenses yet -- doesn't seem to be any reports available. Sure I must have posted something here on the forum. I had the EOS R for a couple of months and used several R and M lenses. I am no pixel peeper or brick wall shooter and to me IQ was fine, couple of examples below, even given the thicker sensor glass. I still had some Canon glass, 70-300L, 50mm 1.2L, and I got the camera with the RF 24-105 and the EF adaptor. AF was very fast and indeed accurate with all of the Canon lenses. I probably don't have to say more than I sold the camera on... I think I have been spoiled with simple menu's, minimal controls, excellent build quality that comes with a Leica, and truthfully my CL and M10 do everything well enough for me. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited February 8, 2019 by Boojay 4 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/289421-new-panasonic-full-frame-with-sl-mount/?do=findComment&comment=3680829'>More sharing options...
Martin B Posted February 8, 2019 Share #686 Posted February 8, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Boojay said: Sure I must have posted something here on the forum. I had the EOS R for a couple of months and used several R and M lenses. I am no pixel peeper or brick wall shooter and to me IQ was fine, couple of examples below, even given the thicker sensor glass. I still had some Canon glass, 70-300L, 50mm 1.2L, and I got the camera with the RF 24-105 and the EF adaptor. AF was very fast and indeed accurate with all of the Canon lenses. I probably don't have to say more than I sold the camera on... I think I have been spoiled with simple menu's, minimal control's, excellent build quality that comes with a Leica, and truthfully my CL and M10 do everything well enough for me. Not surprised to see these results coming from (some longer) DSLR lenses. The difference with the sensor glass comes in when shooting with wide M-mount lenses especially below 28 mm FL. I read that the Canon R is not the most convenient to focus with manual focus lenses either, but I have no personal experience with it. Edited February 8, 2019 by Martin B Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boojay Posted February 8, 2019 Share #687 Posted February 8, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) 2 minutes ago, Martin B said: Not surprised to see these results coming from (some longer) DSLR lenses. The difference with the sensor glass comes in when shooting with wide M-mount lenses especially below 28 mm FL. I read that the Canon R is not the most convenient to focus with manual focus lenses either, but I have no personal experience with it. Yes Martin, I have read the same. Above shots both with M glass 50 and 90. I found manual focus a bit of a faff if I'm honest, but then I never felt I committed to the camera, probably just didn't give it enough time. Absolutely hated the multi function bar thing that I tried to set up for magnify when using manual focus, I just gave up and disabled it in the end. I regularly use M lenses on the CL, so easy, sure it would be the same with an SL. Next time I get an itch for an autofocus FF camera I think it will have to be the SL. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bags27 Posted February 8, 2019 Share #688 Posted February 8, 2019 19 minutes ago, Boojay said: Sure I must have posted something here on the forum. I had the EOS R for a couple of months and used several R and M lenses. I am no pixel peeper or brick wall shooter and to me IQ was fine, couple of examples below, even given the thicker sensor glass. I still had some Canon glass, 70-300L, 50mm 1.2L, and I got the camera with the RF 24-105 and the EF adaptor. AF was very fast and indeed accurate with all of the Canon lenses. I probably don't have to say more than I sold the camera on... I think I have been spoiled with simple menu's, minimal controls, excellent build quality that comes with a Leica, and truthfully my CL and M10 do everything well enough for me. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Even on this Leica site, those are fairly amazing. Would you let us know the camera and lens of these? Thanks! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boojay Posted February 8, 2019 Share #689 Posted February 8, 2019 (edited) 20 minutes ago, bags27 said: Even on this Leica site, those are fairly amazing. Would you let us know the camera and lens of these? Thanks! Thank you, the camera was Canon EOS R, first image with Summilux 50mm 1.4 M, second image with 90mm Summicron M, using a cheap chinese Leica M to Eos R adaptor. Edited February 8, 2019 by Boojay 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted February 10, 2019 Share #690 Posted February 10, 2019 Am 8.2.2019 um 14:18 schrieb sillbeers15: The only thing I am keen to find out is the S1/S1R AF-C tracking capability. I do not expect it to be the best AF tracking in the industry but looking forward to a useable and fairly accurate tracking when compared to the A9, Z7 & other current FF mirrorless cameras especially from the decent AF tracking reviews of G9. The guy in the video review below seems to be very impressed with the AF-C tracking of surfers in the water because of the AI that Panasonic implemented. The nearest eye is prioritized first, then the face, and if the camera can't detect either then it focuses on the body. He was always able to track the body at least he's saying around 23:00 (you'll have to practice some German to understand it). The focus system has also been trained to recognize birds, cats, and 'flying' dogs (I see someone switching back to the L-mount system from the α9 😁). Unfortunately for you no Formula 1 cars are mentioned nor are racehorses (unfortunately for me, I guess). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtCD9tEKS00 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sillbeers15 Posted February 11, 2019 Share #691 Posted February 11, 2019 13 hours ago, Chaemono said: The guy in the video review below seems to be very impressed with the AF-C tracking of surfers in the water because of the AI that Panasonic implemented. The nearest eye is prioritized first, then the face, and if the camera can't detect either then it focuses on the body. He was always able to track the body at least he's saying around 23:00 (you'll have to practice some German to understand it). The focus system has also been trained to recognize birds, cats, and 'flying' dogs (I see someone switching back to the L-mount system from the α9 😁). Unfortunately for you no Formula 1 cars are mentioned nor are racehorses (unfortunately for me, I guess). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtCD9tEKS00 Saw that as a useful feature. Some other Video AF tracking comparison with Z7 by Richard Wong on YouTube showed slower focus tracking changeover on preproduction firmware 0.7. Otherwise AF tracking looks promising. Hopefully 1.0 firmware on Production will sort out matters. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted February 11, 2019 Share #692 Posted February 11, 2019 vor 6 Stunden schrieb sillbeers15: Saw that as a useful feature. Some other Video AF tracking comparison with Z7 by Richard Wong on YouTube showed slower focus tracking changeover on preproduction firmware 0.7. Otherwise AF tracking looks promising. Hopefully 1.0 firmware on Production will sort out matters. In theory, the more they train the software the better the pattern recognition. Then it’s up to algorithms/processor speed/AF motor to try to track them with the lens, I guess. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmradman Posted February 11, 2019 Share #693 Posted February 11, 2019 O boy, had a look on camerasize.com, forthcoming Panasonic is real heavyweight, hopefully Leica can do better. http://j.mp/2WXf1VT Also compared Z7 with SL now this is some revelation. http://j.mp/2MIBVOP Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingo Posted February 12, 2019 Share #694 Posted February 12, 2019 It seems that Panasonic did a great job when it comes to balancing the body and the lenses. Personally I prefer a bigger body that fits in my hands than to add a handgrip or (in case of SL) a RRS plate so that I can hold it a whole workday. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted February 12, 2019 Share #695 Posted February 12, 2019 11 hours ago, mmradman said: O boy, had a look on camerasize.com, forthcoming Panasonic is real heavyweight, hopefully Leica can do better. http://j.mp/2WXf1VT Also compared Z7 with SL now this is some revelation. http://j.mp/2MIBVOP Looking at the SL and SR1 comparisons they actually look suspiciously similar .... which does make me wonder about just how close the Leica/Panasonic co-operation is going to be ....... The ultimate size and shape of a camera body is dictated by what you are trying to squeeze into it ...... and you could easily be tempted to speculate that the SL2 will be 80% the same as the Panasonic internally with just some minor variations to achieve consistency with the SL1....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
helged Posted February 12, 2019 Share #696 Posted February 12, 2019 7 minutes ago, thighslapper said: Looking at the SL and SR1 comparisons they actually look suspiciously similar .... which does make me wonder about just how close the Leica/Panasonic co-operation is going to be ....... The ultimate size and shape of a camera body is dictated by what you are trying to squeeze into it ...... and you could easily be tempted to speculate that the SL2 will be 80% the same as the Panasonic internally with just some minor variations to achieve consistency with the SL1....... +that SL2 might have micro-lenses on the sensor to facilitate use of wide M-lenses, something that S1R might not have (remains to be seen, obviuosly). Economically, it makes sense that Panasonic and Leica shares the sensor (larger volume, lower cost, cooperation regarding calibration, repair, etc.), although the fabrication of a sensor with/without specifically designed micro-lenses seems quite different for one (=me) having limited insight into sensor fabrication. The S1R looks promising - implying quite some upgrades to the SL2 as well. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmradman Posted February 12, 2019 Share #697 Posted February 12, 2019 I can’t find anyone mentioning what is the raw format used by Panasonic S1/R. In the past Leica compact clones used Panasonic raw format instead of own DNG. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bags27 Posted February 12, 2019 Share #698 Posted February 12, 2019 9 hours ago, helged said: +that SL2 might have micro-lenses on the sensor to facilitate use of wide M-lenses, something that S1R might not have (remains to be seen, obviuosly). Economically, it makes sense that Panasonic and Leica shares the sensor (larger volume, lower cost, cooperation regarding calibration, repair, etc.), although the fabrication of a sensor with/without specifically designed micro-lenses seems quite different for one (=me) having limited insight into sensor fabrication. The S1R looks promising - implying quite some upgrades to the SL2 as well. I'm way out of my league here, but I'm thinking that, even if they have the exact same architecture for the sensor/micro-lenses, the processor is going to be different. I'd imagine we'll see in the SL2 and Q2 a Maestro III processor and that at the very least the colors produced by it will be unique to Leica. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frame-it Posted February 18, 2019 Share #699 Posted February 18, 2019 i don't use AF on my SL...but im curious..can the SL-601 do this kind of tracking ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frame-it Posted February 18, 2019 Share #700 Posted February 18, 2019 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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