wilfredo Posted August 7, 2006 Share #1 Posted August 7, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Is it still the popular belief that the new M8 will be a 10.2 megapixel camera? How appealing is that to most of you when other less expensive cameras offer more in terms of megapixels? I'm just wondering what the thinking is out there. I am undecided myself about pursuing the purchase of a new M8 when it finally makes its debut. I'll probably assume a wait and see attitude. Cheers, Wilfredo+ Benitez-Rivera Photography Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 7, 2006 Posted August 7, 2006 Hi wilfredo, Take a look here M8 Megapixels. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
mat_mcdermott Posted August 7, 2006 Share #2 Posted August 7, 2006 10.2mp is plenty for the print sizes I need. I'm not worried about resolution in the slightest, now or in the future. If the DSLR world standard became 25 or 30mp then perhaps I might have pixel envy, but frankly I don't see it happening any time soon. As far as other brands offering more megapixels for less money: Leica has always been the more expensive "light tight box" and if I want to use a rangefinder for digital capture (and not be stuck with the 6MP and the 1:1 viewfinder of the RD-1) then the M8 will be the only option available to me. With the current state of digital capture, I think there is much more to a camera than its megapixels. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted August 7, 2006 Share #3 Posted August 7, 2006 Leica may yet surprise us but I have never hear any serious comment it is any different. Megapixels is but one measure of quality/capability and many would say that 10Mp is enough. Besides, to double the linear resolution, you need 4 times as many pixels so a jump from 10 to 12 or even 16 will hardly make a difference. RAW images from a larger sensor would also become slow and inconvenient to store, transfer and process. 80Mb of data for a RAW image? No thanks. What's more important is the colour depth and noise. Phyiscally larger pixels and CCD instead of CMOS allow greater light gathering capability and lower pixel noise. Most of all, the opportunity for the sensor, firmware and Leica glass to work as an integrated and coherent whole holds the best promise of outstanding image quality. The Digilux 2 showed us the benefit of that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted August 7, 2006 Share #4 Posted August 7, 2006 "...other less expensive cameras offer more in terms of megapixels?" Other rangefinders? If you want an SLR - got for it. But then why are you even considering the M8? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wbesz Posted August 7, 2006 Share #5 Posted August 7, 2006 Is it still the popular belief that the new M8 will be a 10.2 megapixel camera? How appealing is that to most of you when other less expensive cameras offer more in terms of megapixels? I'm just wondering what the thinking is out there. I am undecided myself about pursuing the purchase of a new M8 when it finally makes its debut. I'll probably assume a wait and see attitude. At this level of mp size, this is the least important issue. Dynamic range is far more important (as is processing), unless you are chasing very large printed images, ..and in which most cases it's reasonably easy to record several images and add them to produce one. Cheers, William Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted August 7, 2006 Share #6 Posted August 7, 2006 Is it still the popular belief that the new M8 will be a 10.2 megapixel camera? How appealing is that to most of you when other less expensive cameras offer more in terms of megapixels?... I don't care much about megapixels given the good results i've got with 6 mp cameras already but there are too many things i ignore or dislike about the M8 to feel appealed to it so far: - VF magnification? - frame lines ID & selection? - actual role of lens coding? - upgradability? - 1.33x crop factor - fixed LCD So wait and see AFAIC. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted August 7, 2006 Share #7 Posted August 7, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) I think it's premature to write-off the M8 just because Leica has so far chosen not to reveal some aspects of its specification. We certainly expect a 1.33 crop factor but this is better than many cameras. The reasons why there needs to be a cropped sensor have been well documented and can largely be addressed by adding a wide-angle lens to your collection. Besides, the weight, size and extra cost of an FF sensor and associated processing circuitry might not appeal. Just look at the size of the Canon FF cameras... The fantasy of being able to upgrade the sensor is the product of a childhood diet of Lego. Look at the ballyhoo surrounding the upgrading of lenses to include the new coding and extrapolate that to completely dismantling the camera to replace the sensor and electronics. Hugely time consuming using scarce skills, expensive and high risk for both Leica and its customers. It's not going to happen. Nikon and Canon don't offer the service, why should Leica? Fixed LCD, VF magnification, Frame Lines, we will have to wait and see as LCT says. A foldable LCD would increase the thickness of the camera, so just as people will complain if they don't do it, so too will people complain if they do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted August 7, 2006 Share #8 Posted August 7, 2006 Foldable LCDs are naff too. The sort of thing that you get on Casio P&S cameras, not the real thing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinb Posted August 7, 2006 Share #9 Posted August 7, 2006 Considering that 6mp can give you very good A3 prints, 10mp will be more than enough for me. And it should be said it isn't about how many mp it has, it's more about the quality of them. We should also remember that M cameras is mainly for PJ's and street photography and for that you don't want more than 10mp. It's going to have better image quality than high quality 35mm slide film and I think that's enough for most of us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted August 7, 2006 Share #10 Posted August 7, 2006 Agree with most of the above, if the end results are = or better than a Velvia or Kodachrome slide then I'll be very interested. 10MP should produce A3 (& larger with software) prints of excellent quality so should be fine. I always like the idea of producing a massive enlargement but how often do any of us actually do that? And for the typical uses for an M8, i.e. Photojournalism, Street photography, Social, then it offers more than enough shouldn't it? Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted August 7, 2006 Share #11 Posted August 7, 2006 Foldable LCDs are naff too.. Don't know if i'm naff actualy (outmoded most probably), but have you ever tried the R-D1 Andy? A foldable LCD which can be hidden is a must IMHO as you've got the feeling to shoot with a Leica M. Those pieces of glass can be disturbing at times so i always hide mine during shootings. Quite ugly i reckon but it reassures me for some reason... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/2874-m8-megapixels/?do=findComment&comment=26240'>More sharing options...
krabat Posted August 7, 2006 Share #12 Posted August 7, 2006 I agree that the number of megapixels does not tell everything. Mark Norton already mentioned the Digilux 2, this is a very good example. Although having just 5 MP, each pixle really carries information (enough for excellent pictures in A4 and even bigger), whereas enlarged images of other digicams get blurry quickly. So, more important than megapixels is the quality of the pixels - I could live also with 8 MP, if they are really good - big colour dynamics, low noise. Best regards, Peter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilfredo Posted August 7, 2006 Author Share #13 Posted August 7, 2006 I raised the question above because I am undecided on the issue and cost is a factor for me. I currently own an M7 and wondering how much use I will give that camera if I purchase an M8? I suspect because I am not a professional and don't shoot as much as others on this forum that I would use my M7 less and less. So, do I then sell the M7 at a loss (because I paid full price brand new)? The other option is a Canon 5D, for which I already have the glass. Then I would keep the M7 for those times when I would prefer the rangefinder. I am inclined to go via the 5D route because cost is a factor and the M8 will probably sell for around $4500.00 (U.S.) as opposed to $3200.00 (U.S.) for a Canon 5D. Eventually I will perhaps go for an M8, depending on how it performs over time. I am almost certain that the M8 will produce superior images to the analogue M7. I understand that Megapixels is not the only factor in image quality. My first digital was an Olympus E20 which was a 5 megapixel camera and I got superior images to many 6 megapixel cameras available at the time. I'm looking forward to the debut of the new M at Photokina. I hope it creates a sensation and does justice to the legendary Leica name; this remains to be seen. Cheers, WIlfredo+ Benitez-Rivera Photography Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted August 7, 2006 Share #14 Posted August 7, 2006 I expect the launch of the M8 will change many a film die-hard's loyalties. A thread here has explored how much DMR users revert to film and the answer is very few. If you buy an M8, your M7 will get little use, of that I have no doubt. Every review of Canon FF I've ever read suggests you need their best glass to make it work. Depending on what glass you have, you might find a cropped body would give you all you need at a rather lower cost. It's a tough one. Everyone talks about M8 depreciation. M7 depreciation is going to be an issue for those who want out. I'm keeping my M6 as a historic curiosity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest flatfour Posted August 7, 2006 Share #15 Posted August 7, 2006 I have been very impressed with the quality of images on A3 paper from my Digilux 2 so I should be more than happy if the M8 is 10.2 megabites providing I can one day afford it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
like_no_other Posted August 7, 2006 Share #16 Posted August 7, 2006 Wilfredo, the 10Mpix cameras are not bad (APSc sized sensor chips). Due to the higher pixel density compared to 6Mpix cameras much less sharpening is necessary with them, if any. Presumed excellent lenses. Should Leica equip the M8 with a slightly larger sensor (crop factor 1,3 - not 1,5), still with 10 Mpix, the M8's advantage will be slightly less noise at higher ISOs. As long as Leica uses the same sensor sizes and pixel densities as the competition does, there will be no sensational M8 (sensational means much better than competition!) regarding image quality. Especially because in-camera image processing is a core competence of other companies. I don't know if you already use a DSLR. Most people I know never use their analogue camera after their first year of digital shooting. May the analogue camera be a rangefinder or not. A better time than now for selling the M7 at least your M lenses should be the time after Photokina. Best regards I raised the question above because I am undecided on the issue and cost is a factor for me. I currently own an M7 and wondering how much use I will give that camera if I purchase an M8? I suspect because I am not a professional and don't shoot as much as others on this forum that I would use my M7 less and less. So, do I then sell the M7 at a loss (because I paid full price brand new)? The other option is a Canon 5D, for which I already have the glass. Then I would keep the M7 for those times when I would prefer the rangefinder. I am inclined to go via the 5D route because cost is a factor and the M8 will probably sell for around $4500.00 (U.S.) as opposed to $3200.00 (U.S.) for a Canon 5D. Eventually I will perhaps go for an M8, depending on how it performs over time. I am almost certain that the M8 will produce superior images to the analogue M7. I understand that Megapixels is not the only factor in image quality. My first digital was an Olympus E20 which was a 5 megapixel camera and I got superior images to many 6 megapixel cameras available at the time. I'm looking forward to the debut of the new M at Photokina. I hope it creates a sensation and does justice to the legendary Leica name; this remains to be seen. Cheers, WIlfredo+ Benitez-Rivera Photography Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted August 7, 2006 Share #17 Posted August 7, 2006 ...As long as Leica uses the same sensor sizes and pixel densities as the competition does, there will be no sensational M8 (sensational means much better than competition!) regarding image quality. Especially because in-camera image processing is a core competence of other companies... I beg to differ due to the lack of anti-aliasing filter. Suffice it to view DMR results and even Nikon D70' with its weak AA filter to be confident that the M8 will be sharper than the competition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
like_no_other Posted August 7, 2006 Share #18 Posted August 7, 2006 ok, name the competitive cameras. hint: 10 Mpix, APS sensor size I beg to differ due to the lack of anti-aliasing filter.Suffice it to view DMR results and even Nikon D70' with its weak AA filter to be confident that the M8 will be sharper than the competition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted August 7, 2006 Share #19 Posted August 7, 2006 ok, name the competitive cameras. hint: 10 Mpix, APS sensor size You want me to name all 10 Mpix APS cameras? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
like_no_other Posted August 7, 2006 Share #20 Posted August 7, 2006 I spare no effort. (only models with interchangeable lenses) Nikon D200 Sony Alpha 100 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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