Leica CM / ML?/ New Leica Mirrorless Announcement

[jonatdonuts]

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In that case I look forward to seeing the lenses on ebay - perhaps together with your indestructible Fuji

 

I used my original Fuji X100 in drizzle, sand and dust for years with no problems. They're built better than most non-pro cameras.

 

There's also a 5% chance that anyone's grandchildren here will be also interested in niche manual focus cameras. But they may be able to sell your lenses on eBay to buy the latest iPhone.

[lct]

[...] So if the Sony-Zeiss 55mm 1.8 is 281g, then we can expect a Leica 50mm Summicron-SL to be around 370g. [...]

 

Sounds optimistic for a 102mm tall lens, or would it be shorter?

[Paolo.Battista]

Any type of AF camera should it be, it would be nice to have finally a tilting LCD on its back. I found myself to use it often when shooting with Sony A7II and manual lenses. Like using an old Hassy.

[Exodies]

Tilting lcd is worth more than 3mm extra thickness

[tgdinamo]

Tilting lcd is worth more than 3mm extra thickness

 

I would happily take that additional thickness to get the functionality on my Q. As far as I'm concerned, tilting lcd and weather sealing are the top two missing features on the Q (arguably the only missing features on the otherwise perfect camera).

[mctuomey]

Get SL users to buy the CL as a 24 MPx range extender and the C-M (CM) as a 24 MPx BSI low-light monster. This would still allow for a Q2 with a 40 MPx BSI sensor to be announced at this year's Photokina and that sensor will then be used for the SL2 next year.

 

+1  Or offer a Q2 in a focal length that complements the Q1, and offer the higher mpx sensor on the SL2 this year as well.  One guy's daydream.

[Exodies]

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This time it will be a circular sensor

[frame-it]

anyways...i noticed another camera model registered :

 

ライカ

• 4529
  • デジタルカメラ

Leica
 4529 Digital camera

[bags27]

Wow, a 4529! Sounds like a fantastic camera. I'm pre-ordering. 

[hmathias]

I had a thought...

 

What if the "CM" (rumored to have "Exceptional Dynamic Range") really has a HDR (High Dynamic Range) sensor? The ARRI ALEXA digital cinema camera uses a unique design dual output sensor that combines two outputs from each individual Bayer photosite: one overexposed and one underexposed. It then combines these two outputs to achieve one true 14 stop dynamic range HDR image.

 

This allows the ARRI ALEXA to achieve 14 stops of range without the temporal artifacts that would be caused by two separate sequential exposures. These temporal artifacts would be fatal in the case of the motion imaging of digital cinema.

 

What if that is also the new sensor in the CM?  

[chris_livsey]

I think the supposed camera can be boiled down to two things that people want:

 

1. A small FF EVF camera to use with M lenses

Rightly or wrongly I don’t think that Leica will do that whilst M sales are good

 

Snip

 

A small FF EVF camera to use with M  F Mount lenses

Rightly or wrongly I don’t think that Leica Nikon will do that whilst M  FF SLR sales are goodenough.

 

Even Nikon have seen the future, apparently, but we still await the FF F-mount confirmed in one of the potential releases.

 

If You Don't Cannibalize Yourself, Someone Else Will - Steve Jobs

The "under the counter" M10 discounts are available now, without innovation how large is that market, at that price point?

 

On magic we agree 

[thighslapper]

If the known 'facts' (Kaufmann' statements) and 'rumours' are correct then I would have thought they point to a larger than FF sensor in an SL derivative ....... or a camera with enhanced video capabilities in a CL form factor with a dedicated 'normal' sized sensor +/- IBIS. 

 

Kaufmann put great emphasis on the potentials of the 'L Mount' ....... which as far as I can see is only distinctive in its size and flexibility ....... so any 'surprises' will be either what you can fix on the front of it or stick behind it...... which means sensors or lenses. 

 

The easiest route to enhanced low light and high DR capabilities is big pixels ...... in a >FF size sensor .... but that dictates the use of SL/M/R lenses. 

 

Much of what the speculation is based on to me seems contradictory ..... unless the rumours and leaked info actually refer to several new developments and have been conflated into one.....

 

I'm still scratching my head on this one trying to find a logical answer that fits into Kaufmanns comments about the ongoing trio of distinctive mirrorless products .....  SL, M and 'Leica 1' (ie compact CL/TL) 

 

Second guessing Leica has always been a mugs game ....

[hmathias]

The HDR ALEXA imager is NOT made by ARRI. It is made by a CCD fab in Germany or Belguim. And ARRI (a 100 year old german company) only makes professional digital cinema cameras, not still cameras. So I would think they would welcome a highly respected partner like Leica to share their chip development efforts.

 

The ARRI HDR chip has been available for at least three years. I researched and tested the chip's dynamic range when I wrote my latest book on digital cinema in 2015. This imager chip definitely has a 14 camera stop range. This is more than both the current SL and M10 imager has now, (I tested my Leica cameras also.) 

 

I have been waiting for Leica to add this imager technology to their M or SL camera lineup, maybe this is it?  

[Guest VVJ]

Much of what the speculation is based on to me seems contradictory ..... unless the rumours and leaked info actually refer to several new developments and have been conflated into one.....

 

+1.  The comments from Kaufman, Leica Rumors, the actual name of the camera not ending in L, ... It all does not seem to fit together very well...

 

I could believe the idea of a more video oriented camera but taking on Sony (and Panasonic) and the (soon to be announced) A7sIII, if faut le faire...

 

There is also the confirmation of the new Nikon mirrorless camera which some believe will be using the same (TowerJazz?) sensor as Leica:

https://www.dpreview.com/news/6645869398/nikon-manager-confirms-new-mirrorless-system-coming-by-spring-2019

[dereken]

Sounds optimistic for a 102mm tall lens, or would it be shorter?

It's totally possible it will be a 700g lens with 67mm filter size and as tall as the 75/90mm SL lenses. In fact, that's what the photos on the website point to.

 

It would disappoint a lot of people who are hoping Leica release a lighter camera and SL lenses in 2 weeks.

[jaapv]

As I wrote before, we assume the new camera has an L-mount. So if your claim were true that any new lens for that camera has to have the same size as the existing SL lenses, then why should Leica develop such lenses anew when there are already top-notch SL lenses with L-mount? That would be an embarrassingly dumb move in my opinion. In fact, that's the beauty of having the same mount on different cameras. Then you can use lenses from one system on other cameras as well. So again, the idea is to use SL lenses on the new cam when you want AF and stellar IQ or use new manual focus L-mount lenses on the new cam when you don't need AF and are willing to have just slightly lesser IQ as a trade off for smaller size and lower weight.

 

I do not know were you get your "99.9% certainty" claims from. Reminds me of the abundant claims on this forum that an FF digital M camera is "totally impossible". Luckily, Leica didn't care and promptly released the M9.     

 

By the way, I didn't mention Sony lenses. If somebody else did that, you should talk to them.

Please link to a few of such claims.

[jaapv]

I had a thought...

 

What if the "CM" (rumored to have "Exceptional Dynamic Range") really has a HDR (High Dynamic Range) sensor? The ARRI ALEXA digital cinema camera uses a unique design dual output sensor that combines two outputs from each individual Bayer photosite: one overexposed and one underexposed. It then combines these two outputs to achieve one true 14 stop dynamic range HDR image.

 

This allows the ARRI ALEXA to achieve 14 stops of range without the temporal artifacts that would be caused by two separate sequential exposures. These temporal artifacts would be fatal in the case of the motion imaging of digital cinema.

 

What if that is also the new sensor in the CM?  

What would be the sense of going to such lengths  for 14 stops when present Leica sensors are already specified for 13 stops absolute dynamic range?

[IkarusJohn]

To my mind, this thread is all “arse about face” as we like to say on the bottom of the World.

 

Surely, what Leica is doing is rationalising and expanding its lens offerings. While this discussion about cameras is understandable, it overlooks the more critical issue of Leica’s lens strategy - to expand its offerings in the L mount. So far, Leica has AF lenses in S (medium format), SL (full frame) and TL2/CL (APS-C), and a multitude of full frame offerings in M mount.

 

With complaints over quality and supply issues with the S lenses, limited ranges of SL & TL lenses (which I’m not sure I agree with, to be honest), I can’t see Leica offering yet another range of lenses in L mount. For those wanting a medium format competitor for the X1D, any such camera would surely be in S mount. I can think why Leica would produce XL lenses when they take so long to produce what they’ve already promised. Besides, medium format is Hasselblad territory and full frame is Leica’s strength.

 

My pick is more lenses announced and a new full frame camera with a “sexier” format than the SL (maybe a modern take on the M form factor), and less options than the SL. That way, access to L mount lenses of both formats, and access to M and S mount lenses with adapters.

[Jeff S]

My pick is more lenses announced and a new full frame camera with a “sexier” format than the SL (maybe a modern take on the M form factor), and less options than the SL. That way, access to L mount lenses of both formats, and access to M and S mount lenses with adapters.

The original linked rumor predicts full frame, L mount, between SL and CL, called C-M or similar (implying some M connection, possibly form factor), and 5 new mirrorless lenses added to the roadmap.

 

Jeff

Edited June 4, 2018 by Jeff S

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[Guest VVJ]

My pick is more lenses announced and a new full frame camera with a “sexier” format than the SL (maybe a modern take on the M form factor), and less options than the SL. 

 

To get more M-shooters on board such a camera would need to be 200g lighter and also smaller which would probably mean that it would not have the EVF from the SL.  It is a possibility.

 

As far as the lenses goes, as the rumor says mirrorless lenses, a mix of TL and SL lenses is to be expected, including perhaps a few smaller SL lenses to go with the smaller new body?