Leica M7 now discontinued

[Mark II]

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I think Leica are a company which is very aware of the used market values, many buyers justify paying the high price for a Leica by the knowledge that the resale value tends to be good and so the cost of ownership may actually be fairly low when you eventually sell.

If M7 sales and used prices have been trending lower because of real or percieved longevity concerns, then it makes sense to halt production and limit supply. All other things being equal we should see the used value of an M7 start to creep upwards over the next few years preserving the value of the brand.

 

The other possibility which no-one seems to be considering is that they have a sucessor planned? M-7 anyone?

 

 

This is the entire problem in a nutshell. The customers that Leica are now targeting seemingly care more about rising prices and "investments" than photography.

 

Leica's reputation was founded on the excellent work of people like HCB and others. But if Leica fails to make practical and affordable tools today, that legacy is as good as dead. I would argue that without a meaningful number of best-in-class photographers actively creating a new living and breathing body of excellent photographic work, Leica's longer term trajectory is not sustainable. There are precious few *photographic* reasons why photographers need to deal with Leica's current price and support pain.

 

I really hope that you are right and that there is an M7.2 or similar in the works. However, at present this is just wishful thinking.

[Mark II]

I wonder if the shutter's electronics could be modified to allow all speeds likely using the batteries - bypassing auto exposure.

 

I am not sure how much that would help.

 

Perhaps more sensible would be to ditch the entire DX reading apparatus, which would simplify the design to save cost and improve reliability.

[wattsy]

I wonder if the shutter's electronics could be modified to allow all speeds likely using the batteries - bypassing auto exposure.

 

 

The M7 shutter speeds are governed by a quartz timing mechanism. The only way of modifying the camera to enable all shutter speeds to work independent of the "electronics" would be to put in the clockwork timing mechanism found in all the other M film bodies. Then you wouldn't have the option of AE and would have something like a de facto M6TTL. What would be the point of doing that?

Edited May 29, 2018 by wattsy

[wattsy]

with the end of the m7 and the problems in the future for service I'm would know or someone know which m camera's are still being serviced in wetzlar?

 

 

Obviously all the current models (including the M7) are still serviced at Wetzlar. It is not a fast service by any stretch of the imagination but, in my experience during the last couple of years, it isn't ludicrously slow either. It is, however, quite expensive and you will likely have to fight customer service to avoid a mandatory €800 CLA being added to any repair.

[M9reno]

For me the odds of their building an M7.2 are lower than of their exiting the analog camera business altogether.

[wlaidlaw]

Obviously all the current models (including the M7) are still serviced at Wetzlar. It is not a fast service by any stretch of the imagination but, in my experience during the last couple of years, it isn't ludicrously slow either. It is, however, quite expensive and you will likely have to fight customer service to avoid a mandatory €800 CLA being added to any repair.

 

Ian, 

 

It is probably cheaper to buy another second hand M7 than try to get one repaired now by Leica, unless it is a mechanical fault that the likes of Alan Starkie can repair. I paid £1100 for my upgraded one, including a Motor-M, all with 6 months warranty. The M4-P that I just bought for very little money indeed, arrived yesterday and seems to work perfectly other than at 1 second, where occasionally the second curtain hangs for about half a second. I will never use 1 second on it, so not a worry. The MR-4 meter has dodgy power/meter lock and range switches, so will need Ian Partridge's gentle ministrations but even the M4-2 Winder works perfectly, if rather violently and the Thin (I thought I was getting an earlier Fat one but it's the later variant) Tele-Elmarit 90 lens is clean and sharp. All this for less than the cost of a CLA at Leica. I have a spare working MR-4 Leicameter, albeit a non-matching chrome one but I can live with that until the black one is fettled. 

 

Wilson

[M9reno]

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Mulling this overnight, I’ve decided to put away notions of pre-emptying M7 failure by buying a backup that might itself fail. My M6TTL is already about as solid a backup as I’m going to get in this game.

[stephen.w]

Mulling this overnight, I’ve decided to put away notions of pre-emptying M7 failure by buying a backup that might itself fail. My M6TTL is already about as solid a backup as I’m going to get in this game.

 

As a cheaper AE M-mount camera, you could also consider a Hexar RF (if you prefer wider lenses) or a Zeiss Ikon (if you prefer longer ones). I had a Hexar for a time and really enjoyed using it.

[wlaidlaw]

As a cheaper AE M-mount camera, you could also consider a Hexar RF (if you prefer wider lenses) or a Zeiss Ikon (if you prefer longer ones). I had a Hexar for a time and really enjoyed using it.

 

There are no shutters left for the Hexar RF if it fails, usually because someone or something has touched the paper thin titanium blades. I have a friend who sent his Hexar to Japan for repair well over a year ago and they are still looking for a shutter for it. Otherwise I agree a great camera with the quietest ever motor drive. 

 

Wilson

[pico]

Perhaps more sensible would be to ditch the entire DX reading apparatus, which would simplify the design to save cost and improve reliability.

 

Fortunately, ISO can be set manually using the dial on the back.

Edited May 29, 2018 by pico

[stephen.w]

There are no shutters left for the Hexar RF if it fails, usually because someone or something has touched the paper thin titanium blades. I have a friend who sent his Hexar to Japan for repair well over a year ago and they are still looking for a shutter for it. Otherwise I agree a great camera with the quietest ever motor drive. 

 

Wilson

 

Good (but sad) to know, thanks. I suppose one could harvest defunct Hexars (which have failed for other reasons), but that's no way to live. 

[gberger]

Having owned and really used the M6TTl, M7 and the Zeiss Ikon ZM, if your M7 goes South, pick up a Zeiss ZM on eBay or used from a dealer.  You'll be surprised , as it really is an excellent AE camera with a viewfinder far superior to any M-series - - but you have to set the ISO manually. Used ones sell in the $1600-$1750 range.

 

Just a thought

Edited May 29, 2018 by gberger

[Jeff S]

Puts expounds on the ‘discontinuance’ of the M7, and the more general issues associated with the Leica production process...

 

http://photo.imx.nl//blog/files/fa7f84b030387e28b608c4a783d2c91c-102.html

 

Jeff

[UliWer]

Puts expounds on the ‘discontinuance’ of the M7, and the more general issues associated with the Leica production process...

 

http://photo.imx.nl//blog/files/fa7f84b030387e28b608c4a783d2c91c-102.html

 

Jeff

 

 

 Looks as if Mr. Puts read something in this Forum recently:

 

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/284290-farewell-to-the-135-apo-telyt-m/?p=3516956

 

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/284290-farewell-to-the-135-apo-telyt-m/?p=3517024

[wlaidlaw]

I get the impression that ongoing service and spares is a far greater concern to members of this forum than the lack of availability of new M7 cameras. It would give us M7 owners a considerable measure of comfort if Leica were to give us some sort of commitment on a certain number of years of continuing provision of spares and service. Six years would be good and ten years excellent. 

 

Wilson

[thebarnman]

I’m tempted to buy a second body as backup (but to use, not to store in a box). The main thing holding me back is pessimism about the future of slide film, which is my main use for the very precise shutter of the M7. My frozen stash of Fuji Velvia, and the little shrine for Ektachrome, with prayers yet unanswered, are hard reminders. Advice?

 

 

You can always send almost any B&W film in for reverse processing to DR5 http://www.dr5.com/  Your B&W film will come back as B&W slides. 

[wlaidlaw]

I would think that Fuji Provia 100 and 400 will be around for some considerable time. If Ektachrome does not appear, due most likely to Kodak's precarious financial state, Provia would in effect, have 100% of the market. I would not then be surprised to see a substantial price rise to say $20 a roll or equivalent. There is Rollei Crossbird which in theory you can process E6, which I tried, as it was the only pseudo reversal made in 127 size for my Rollei Baby. Very grainy and poor colours, so not an experience to be repeated. My processor warned me and recommended I process it C41 and scan. 

 

I now have three Tupperware containers full of Agfa Precisa CT100 reversal (about 4+ years supply sitting in the freezer). 

 

For black and white, Adox have reissued the old Agfa film Scala 160 and a kit for processing it as reversal. 

 

Wilson

[colonel]

This is the entire problem in a nutshell. The customers that Leica are now targeting seemingly care more about rising prices and "investments" than photography.

 

Leica's reputation was founded on the excellent work of people like HCB and others. But if Leica fails to make practical and affordable tools today, that legacy is as good as dead. I would argue that without a meaningful number of best-in-class photographers actively creating a new living and breathing body of excellent photographic work, Leica's longer term trajectory is not sustainable. There are precious few *photographic* reasons why photographers need to deal with Leica's current price and support pain.

 

I really hope that you are right and that there is an M7.2 or similar in the works. However, at present this is just wishful thinking.

Myth busting time:

1. It’s a falicy to mention low prices. Leica has never been about “affordable” tools

2. New Leica cameras have always lost money. A M7 looses 50% if it’s value the day you buy it (new)

3. Leica have consistently said they will manufacture individual film bodies until the sales numbers fall below x00. They have simply carried out their policy

 

I think this is a very sad day and the end of an area. On the other hand I am realistic and am enthusiastic about most of Leica’s products and many of its new ones

[Mark II]

An original film Leica was most definitely an affordable and practical tool.

 

Yes, they were expensive to buy up front, but not astronomically so, and they lasted practically forever and remained repairable for decades. What is missing is any modern equivalent to this - particularly on the service side which from personal experience is appalling. And purchase costs for professional use need to be multiplied to alllow for the service and support. With Leica you need to hold significantly more back up equipment than if you were working with a company with 24 hour service turnaround and no wait-lists to buy replacements.

 

The observation that the (financial) “value” of an M7 drops 50% is basically my point - namely that Leica’s customers are increasingly people who buy special edition cameras or lenses primarily as heirlooms or investments rather than as a daily photographic tool. You can see this clearly in the numerous special editions released and the threads on this forum discussing the pros/cons of black paint vs chrome etc.

 

There is nothing inherently wrong making things for this market, but unless the company *also* provides practical daily tools and support for photographic use, Leica will in an fundamental sense cease to be about the quality photography that underpins its “brand” (for want of a better word).

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[stephen.w]

Six years would be good and ten years excellent. 

 

 

To me, even a ten year commitment would seem quite short for a camera which you can still buy (and not for an inconsiderable sum) new today.