Has anyone proposed having a "Stolen Leica" forum

[pebbles]

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I am not suggesting a 'lost' Leica forum but one specifically for 'Stolen' cameras or lenses and which have been advised to the police. it just seems that the our Leica community could recognise and identify a camera much more quickly than a police officer and confirm it with the serial number.

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[Peter H]

Sounds like a good idea.

[abrewer]

At one time Leica itself maintained such a list. We talked about it in a thread on the old Forum, but that was years ago. I'm not sure what has become of it; however, there still is a place on the corporate site where you can register your cameras and etc. I suppose that would go a long way toward a claim of ownership if your property is recovered.

[pebbles]

I had a Leica stolen from my car in 1996 and gave the serial number to the police who put it on their stolen property list. In those days Christies had regular Photographic auctions so I told them the number. They said they always checked the police list before allowing a camera to be auctioned. A couple of years later my camera was sold by Christies who refused to give me the name of the purchaser under the Data Protection Act. The camera is still out there somewhere.When we were burgled in 2011 five Leicas were stolen in an armed robbery.The police gave up trying to find the stolen property as the burglars were "forensically aware"  After I had recovered from my injury I contacted Leica who kindly circulated the serial numbers to all their dealers. Then a dealer contacted me to say he had been offered my M6. The result  - the police recovered the cameras and caught the burglars who received long prison sentences. i feel if dealers could use our website they could quickly check whether a camera is stolen.

[Peter H]

I had a Leica stolen from my car in 1996 and gave the serial number to the police who put it on their stolen property list. In those days Christies had regular Photographic auctions so I told them the number. They said they always checked the police list before allowing a camera to be auctioned. A couple of years later my camera was sold by Christies who refused to give me the name of the purchaser under the Data Protection Act. The camera is still out there somewhere.When we were burgled in 2011 five Leicas were stolen in an armed robbery.The police gave up trying to find the stolen property as the burglars were "forensically aware"  After I had recovered from my injury I contacted Leica who kindly circulated the serial numbers to all their dealers. Then a dealer contacted me to say he had been offered my M6. The result  - the police recovered the cameras and caught the burglars who received long prison sentences. i feel if dealers could use our website they could quickly check whether a camera is stolen.

 

 

 

A bad experience for sure, but a decent outcome in the unpleasant circumstances.

 

I think you're right, that a list here could be very helpful. But I'm still waiting for someone to come along and explain why it's not a good idea!  

 

Since no one has though, maybe you should drop a PM to Andreas and suggest creating a sticky thread, or whatever it might be called. 

[andybarton]

What if someone were to maliciously state on here that a camera or lens of SN: 1234567 had been stolen, even if that wasn't true?

 

Forever, that SN: could be tainted and the rightful owner could have all sorts of problems having the thing serviced or at sale.

 

The forum has no way of knowing whether a person who posts that SN: 1234567 has been stolen has told the truth.

[pebbles]

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What if someone were to maliciously state on here that a camera or lens of SN: 1234567 had been stolen, even if that wasn't true?

 

Forever, that SN: could be tainted and the rightful owner could have all sorts of problems having the thing serviced or at sale.

 

The forum has no way of knowing whether a person who posts that SN: 1234567 has been stolen has told the truth.

Andy. I assume that any stolen item would have been reported to the police. This could be a requirement and the member should state which police station was advised. False statements to the police are an offence.

[Gibbo]

Does Andreas have to then contact the police to check that out?

[andybarton]

Andreas has better things to do than chase around the world phoning police stations to see whether a camera has been reported stolen, I would suggest.

 

Leica are the proper people to hold such a registry. 

 

Owners should be encouraged to register their details when they buy, or sell a camera. I know that some people don't want to do this, but if everyone did, if an article gets stolen, it would be easy for Leica to flag the item themselves against the database of the owners.

 

As time goes by it is more unlikely that second, third or fifteenth owners will do this of course, and as soon as one owner doesn't register a sale/purchase, the whole system breaks down.

 

Probably best to make sure that you are properly insured.

[Peter H]

Andreas has better things to do than chase around the world phoning police stations to see whether a camera has been reported stolen, I would suggest.

 

Leica are the proper people to hold such a registry. 

 

Owners should be encouraged to register their details when they buy, or sell a camera. I know that some people don't want to do this, but if everyone did, if an article gets stolen, it would be easy for Leica to flag the item themselves against the database of the owners.

 

As time goes by it is more unlikely that second, third or fifteenth owners will do this of course, and as soon as one owner doesn't register a sale/purchase, the whole system breaks down.

 

Probably best to make sure that you are properly insured.

 

 

 

I don't think the idea is that Andreas or anyone else should do anything with the list.  Just its existence could be helpful, so that buyers could check it before going ahead.

[andybarton]

That was the implication - that someone here could check with the police to see whether the report was legit. I can tell you now, that isn't going to happen.

 

This might sound like a good idea, but it's impossible to manage, unless there is some proof that the person reporting the theft is the legitimate owner. Even including a scan of an original receipt is no evidence - the reporter might have previously sold on the article, and later reported it stolen.

 

Unless you have 100% proof that the article really was stolen, any list held here would be actually worse than useless as it could create more problems than it was set up to solve.

[Exodies]

It’s not in auction houses financial interest to avoid fencing stolen goods. “Data protection” snigger. Why is that only a thing when it comes to protecting dodgy practices?

[Denys]

My tuppence worth... ...I understand the intention, but I agree with Andy about misuse. As well as deliberate there can be problems caused accidentally. A few years ago, when renewing my car insurance I was asked about an accident the car had been in a few months before. My car actually wasn’t in that accident; indeed it had never been within 100 miles of the place where the accident had taken place. After some investigation (by me!), I found out a member of the public had reported details but made a mistake when noting the registration plate of the car in question. Having convinced the insurance company I had nothing to do with the incident it gave me a correct quote.. ..but the ‘accident’ remained on my file (“by law”) for, if memory serves three years. For these subsequent years I had to go through the same tiresome procedure.

 

If something new is done then it needs to be robust.

 

As a parting shot, I’d suggest most stolen goods aren’t taken to dealers by the theaves.. ..the goods are sold in free newspapers or ‘down the pub’. The poor soul that will subsequently encounter a problem with servicing or trade in will, most likely, be innocent.

[pebbles]

Andreas has better things to do than chase around the world phoning police stations to see whether a camera has been reported stolen, I would suggest.

 

Leica are the proper people to hold such a registry. 

 

Owners should be encouraged to register their details when they buy, or sell a camera. I know that some people don't want to do this, but if everyone did, if an article gets stolen, it would be easy for Leica to flag the item themselves against the database of the owners.

 

As time goes by it is more unlikely that second, third or fifteenth owners will do this of course, and as soon as one owner doesn't register a sale/purchase, the whole system breaks down.

 

Probably best to make sure that you are properly insured.

That's a fair point Andy. My camera was insured  but my policy had a £500 excess and the camera was then worth £500. You can't win.

[andybarton]

In which case, you don't even tell your insurance company, you just go out and buy another £500 camera. There's obviously no point in making a claim if the value is the same as the excess.

 

However, you may well have to declare that you had a burglary when you next come to renew the insurance, even if you haven't made a claim. That's certainly true with motor insurance.

[Exodies]

Why do forum members anonymise their serial numbers (sometimes)?

[Ouroboros]

It isn't a very practical idea for a forum owner to maintain a lost or stolen register.  Just guessing, but there there may be potential implications with GDPR which might render it useless anyway, apart from the feasibility and responsibility of keeping such a register.

 

There might be a rush to delete all the images in the 'I Love my Mxx' threads where serial numbers and other identifying marks are visible.  That would be a terrible loss to the forum, wouldn't it!

 

Insure, be sensible and hope for the best.

 

It's not a bad idea to register your property.

[andybarton]

 

 

Why do forum members anonymise their serial numbers (sometimes)?

 

So that others can't declare the SN: as stolen.

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[Exodies]

Someone stole my Sn1234567 object.

[pebbles]

I might add that the police have told me that the camera is still my property because the Auctioneers did not pass on good title, So whoever now has it is in possession of stolen goods. It is quite a rare camera with a rare lens. Now worth quite a bit more that £500,