Has anyone proposed having a "Stolen Leica" forum

[jaapv]

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There is scarcely any administration burden.

 

I have administered a very large UK consumer forum for more than 13 years.

 

If the administration on this forum wanted to talk to me about it I would be quite happy to help to set up and to administer it for a year or so.

 

In that case it would probably be necessary to create a lost and stolen sub- forum and to grant restricted moderator rights in respect of that sub- forum alone.

 

The form could be configured so that any posts were automatically placed on moderation and would not appear until they were approved by a moderator.

 

There would be a set of instructions placed in the first post informing people that the forum was only to be used by the owners of lost or stolen property – and that useful information about these items should be posted elsewhere in that forum.

 

There would be a suggested checklist of information which was required including: –

description, serial number, last seen, police informed yes/no, Crime Reference Number Issued Yes/No Art Loss Register informed yes/no

 

Brief summary of circumstances leading to loss or theft.

 

This this could be refined as time went on.

 

In fact if there was a separate sub- forum for lost and found in each item could be posted up in a new thread – the new thread title would include the serial number of the stolen item or just a few digits if that appeared to be more prudent.

 

Furthermore, using an auto Tweeter, news of the item could be tweeted out automatically to a dedicated lost and stolen Leica equipment Twitter account which would soon attract a lot of followers, I expect.

 

I believe this is a vbulletin forum and there are automatic tweeting plug-ins available for it.

 

I have been using one of my own forum for years and it is extremely successful.

 

You can see how it works here https://twitter.com/Real_CAG

(shameless plug  )

 

 

Quite unpractical, these forms and procedures differ by country.

I think it would be very hard to publish such a list under the coming Dutch privacy law, which is quite draconic (for instance I will not be able to send an X-Ray over the mail - we need encrypted communication with another practitioner)

[marcg]

Fair enough if you think that it is impractical. However, the new data protection regime is a European-wide matter and it is also coming into the UK on 25 May.

 

Despite the new GDPR (General Data Protection Regulations) there are no data protection issues relating to the carrying of a lost and stolen forum on this website.

 

However, it's probably time to let the matter go.

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[andybarton]

If you store someone's data, such as their name, and a SN and other details of their camera, plus police reports, insurance claims etc, in a database, how can the GDPR not apply?

[andybarton]

 

I've looked through the thread to try and understand the objections which are being raised by Tony/Pebbles and am afraid I can't notice them.

 

 

 

It wasn't Pebbles that was raising the objections. It was some of the rest of us.

[marcg]

If you store someone's data, such as their name, and a SN and other details of their camera, plus police reports, insurance claims etc, in a database, how can the GDPR not apply?

 

Because information which is posted up on a public forum such as this is not "personal data" for the purposes of data protection regimes.

 

We've had exactly this issue on several occasions on my own forum and in some of those cases we are even talking about information which has been published about third parties such as peoples names and the positions that they occupy in their companies.

 

We have received challenges and we have sought advice from the Information Commissioner and that has been the response.

 

"Personal data" refers to the kind of information that you receive from your members about themselves when they enter their personal details into your website registration form.

 

I would have thought it would be a simple matter – assuming that you are interested in providing some kind of "lost and stolen" service to the forum membership, to write a question to the information Commissioner describing the information which might be posted and the circumstances in which it is being published in order to obtain an official view. The Information Commissioner is very helpful with these kind of things despite being rather limp-wristed in many other things.

 

Don't forget, that we are publishers. If the material which publishers published were treated as "data" it would be a very dangerous thing.

Edited April 9, 2018 by marcg

[LUF Admin]

Sorry, I'm late in this discussion... Easter vacation plus workload after return.

 

We had in the good old times an application exactly for that: „Lost Leicas“.

It was in the time when Leica was the owner of this forum

 

It had two forms:

 

1. Reporting Lost Leicas

This form was to report lost Leicas (stolen, lost, whatever) - requesting some information (personal data, SN, model) plus (not sure about that) the scan of a police or insurance report.

 

2. Requesting the status of a SN

In order to request the status you had to enter:

- SN, model and the situation where you found the camera/lens (auction, eBay) etc.

 

We had a (very faulty) database of SN-ranges for different cameras and lenses to verify the entered data.

 

The processes behind this application were a bit complicated as we had to keep in mind all kind of abuse.

• False reports – as kind of revenge. Or after the camera was found again.
• Anonymous check by a thief if the camera was already reported.

If you start to think about what might go wrong you find a lot...

 

In order to avoid abuse you need a lot of identity verification - and this is were the GDPR fun starts.

 

Short OT: I'm spending work weeks with fulfilling all requirements by the new GDPR coming in May.

And the personal data I handle in the forums are not tricky: no personal names etc.

 

Despite the work needed to build such an application and the data protection issued:

The processes behind the application would need a lot of work...

 

Bottom line: I can understand well your wish to have such an application.

But I'd take a lot of responsibility if I'd offer it as forum or as service.

 

I'm very experienced and relaxed about a lot of legal issues - but this is too much...

 

Sorry

Andreas

 

PS.: Sorry again for any language and logical inconsistencies, had to type this quickly, have to pick up my daughter...

[LUF Admin]

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Don't forget, that we are publishers. If the material which publishers published were treated as "data" it would be a very dangerous thing.

 

It is. Believe me. And I'm taking the risk.

 

And no lawyer or Information Commissioner will guarantee me that I'm getting no legal trouble.

 

Had some lawyers at my virtual house door, threatening me to take down personal information.

 

Andreas

Edited April 10, 2018 by LUF Admin
Fixed typo

[marcg]

Thanks. Maybe we can all pitch into a fund to bail you out!

[marcg]

It is. Believe me. And I'm taking the risk.

 

 

 

Come and run a forum as controversial as the one I'm running and you will find out a bit about risk      

[LUF Admin]

No need to take risk without good reason …

 

I have some binders full of legal trouble - and I don't need more of that.

 

Andreas

[pebbles]

My apologies for introducing this matter. i am no expert with web sites - not on twitter or facebook - but I am aware of Data Protection issues. My only comment is that the feature would only have the member's title as the personal details etc would remain with the Leica Forum. I'll just have to keep searching the UK as that is where I think it is. I had another camera stolen from my car when several cars were broken into in a car park and of course I have all serial numbers but I have no real attachment to that camera. Many thanks for all you comments. It looks like it is a dead duck. I'll check again with a lawyer friend before I finally give up on the idea..

[Gibbo]

Don't apologise, it's been interesting!!

[marcg]

My apologies for introducing this matter. i am no expert with web sites - not on twitter or facebook - but I am aware of Data Protection issues. My only comment is that the feature would only have the member's title as the personal details etc would remain with the Leica Forum. I'll just have to keep searching the UK as that is where I think it is. I had another camera stolen from my car when several cars were broken into in a car park and of course I have all serial numbers but I have no real attachment to that camera. Many thanks for all you comments. It looks like it is a dead duck. I'll check again with a lawyer friend before I finally give up on the idea..

 

 

Don't apologise, it's been interesting!!

 

Yes, I quite agree. It's been extremely interesting.

 

No one should apologise for kicking off any kind of discussion on this forum

[pebbles]

One last comment from me. The DPA is designed to protect "personal information". I have been told that providing no additional personal information is given in a listing then no offence will have been caused. So if the listing simply gave the member's "handle", the camera model, its serial number, the lens, and its serial number, and the name of the police area which was informed of the theft, then no problems arise.

[marcg]

I tend to agree – but at the end of the day it depends on Andreas' risk appetite – and I think that he's been fairly clear about that.

[Ouroboros]

If you feel so confident, why don’t you set something up somewhere and take the responsibility for managing it yourself?

[pebbles]

If you feel so confident, why don’t you set something up somewhere and take the responsibility for managing it yourself?

Because Leica forum is a wonderful good natured site for all Leica users and is watched by Leica owners who are not members. I'm no computer expert.

[marcg]

If you feel so confident, why don’t you set something up somewhere and take the responsibility for managing it yourself?

 

I don't think that you understand the difficulty of starting from scratch ...

 

Because Leica forum is a wonderful good natured site for all Leica users and is watched by Leica owners who are not members. I'm no computer expert.

 

... and clearly you do. 

[Ouroboros]

It wouldn't be difficult to set something up with potentially a far wider reach than this forum has.  But that of course means taking responsibility, which is clearly not an easy thing for some.

 

The reasons given here for such an idea being unrealistic from the GDPR aspect are very real, however well-intentioned the idea might seem.

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Hallo,

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[andybarton]

If you read Andreas's posts above, you can see that such a proposal will not be happening within these four walls.