ianman Posted March 27, 2018 Share #241 Posted March 27, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) But I can not condone the attacks on him personally or on his wife, they are beyond the scope of this forum and such comments lower the tone and reputation of both the forum and the members concerned. I urge you to inform, form and keep your own counsel on the individuals concerned, petition privately or as an organised group to dissuade Leica or others from any association with such products .... but above all take a long hard look at yourselves and what you're posting, perhaps what's even hanging in the wardrobe, I'm sure one may find an animal fur of some description from a bygone time ... just saying!. Are you sure you have read all the posts? As far as I am aware there have been no attacks on him personally or on his wife. A few comments about their chosen lifestyle but no attacks as such! 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 27, 2018 Posted March 27, 2018 Hi ianman, Take a look here Luxury Camera Bags by Thorsten von Overgaard. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted March 27, 2018 Share #242 Posted March 27, 2018 I've read this thread and viewed the TO's promotional video. I'm biting my tongue on both counts but it's not working. Regarding the blue crocodile bag, it's as hideous now as it was a few months ago when he posted it in a bag thread here without raising an eyebrow. The Elephant Hide is in poor taste and unethical given the current plight of that or any of our endangered species. In my opinion he has made a poor judgement call on so many levels. I can understand people in this thread getting very perplexed around the core issue of the Elephant Hide, I applaud their defence of this beautiful creature which I've had many encounters with in Thailand where they were used locally as beasts of burden. But I can not condone the attacks on him personally or on his wife, they are beyond the scope of this forum and such comments lower the tone and reputation of both the forum and the members concerned. I urge you to inform, form and keep your own counsel on the individuals concerned, petition privately or as an organised group to dissuade Leica or others from any association with such products .... but above all take a long hard look at yourselves and what you're posting, perhaps what's even hanging in the wardrobe, I'm sure one may find an animal fur of some description from a bygone time ... just saying!. You are right that there have been some personal attacks, but they have been deleted and you can find moderator posts on the subject in the thread. Be assured that the moderation team will strive to keep the thread clean, despite any personal opinions they might have. Should there be any posts that are out of bounds, please use the report button. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 27, 2018 Share #243 Posted March 27, 2018 This sounds like typical Greenwash. Just saying "helping preserve endangered species" doesn't prove that it is. This is far too vague to accept. Just saying they are naturally deceased doesn't prove they are, or tell how it is monitored, regulated and/or certified. This is far too vague to accept too. How much do these reserves get from "hide sales" that contribute to the so-called preservation of endangered species? I just googled Elephant Hide sales and it is sells for a measly $45 per square foot (I won't link the source giving them a backlink, google "elephant hide price"). Padding out animal numbers with all mammal and bird species has little relevance and is vague. It seems like smoke and mirror tactics. How many elephants does this sanctuary have? More information is needed. Most "legal" Elephant hide comes from South East Asia where hundreds of Elephants are killed yearly for their parts. They come with "genuine" certificates which can be obtained by corruption, and with declarations of origin purporting to be from Africa. There are thought to be about 35.000 Asian Elephants left, despite higher official figures. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Barnack Posted March 27, 2018 Author Share #244 Posted March 27, 2018 (edited) He does have an account here as it happens (can't remember his forum name but it's something anonymous) but doesn't seem to visit often. Much more active on FB. His Forum name is Overgaard. I PMed him here, as follows: Have a read: https://www.l-camera...-von-overgaard/ I would like to hear your reaction to this thread, as would many other forum members. Regards, Allan And he replied, as follows: Thank you Allan, I hadn't seen that till now. That's quite a stream of arguments ... and much more. I'm reading it and will be addressing these and other concerns in an upcoming newsletter. The reactions are an eye-opener and I think everybody can learn something from a discussion on this. Thanks for pointing me to it. /Thorsten Make of his reply what you will - and if revealing the contents of our private conversation makes me a vile little turd of a person, I will gladly wear that label. I have been called worse by my own mother and lived to tell. Edited March 27, 2018 by Herr Barnack Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 27, 2018 Share #245 Posted March 27, 2018 Oh, stop (Edit: the words) the "natural" death of the wild animals! In the past year alone, more than 20,000 elephants and 1,000 rhinos were killed in Africa to export ivory and horns, especially to Asia. "Meanwhile, the survival of whole species is endangered: On the African continent, there are only 25,000 rhinos," warned Steiner and spoke of a "dramatic situation". Translated with google. https://www.stern.de/panorama/wissen/natur/bedrohte-tierarten-in-afrika-un-sagt-illegalem-tierhandel-den-kampf-an-3182896.html Actually, the number of Rhinos poached is probably higher. In South Africa both the actual number of Rhinos and the number poached are official state secrets. But talking to rangers, who will not go into specifics of course, the numbers are worrying, to say the least. As mentioned before, Elephant are at very high risk in countries like Mozambique, Angola, Congo and CAR. Some countries are doing well. For instance Malawi, despite being in the bottom 10 of poor countries is working hard at protection, surprisingly 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted March 27, 2018 Share #246 Posted March 27, 2018 His Forum name is Overgaard. I PMed him here, as follows: And he replied, as follows: Make of his reply what you will - and if revealing the contents of our private conversation makes me a vile little turd of a person, I will gladly wear that label. I have been called worse by my own mother and lived to tell. Again, I was referring to Dr Kaufmann having an account here not TO. It's quite amazing that TO claimed to have been unaware of this thread, given that he visits here regularly, had responded to subscribers to his newsletter fairly promptly and has also altered his advertisements. It would be better if he 'stood up' and defended his position here as he clearly sees nothing wrong with what he's doing. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernstk Posted March 27, 2018 Share #247 Posted March 27, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) Given the strength of our feelings on this and the almost universal alignment against rare hides being used, shouldn't we write a collective or group message to him, stating our concerns? We've discussed this on this forum and we've shared it with Leica but with the exception of one message, we haven't contacted Thorsten. I really think that the right thing to do is to tell him how we feel and to open up the discussion, either by a message here or by another method that we know will reach him. That may be the best way to a potentially positive outcome. Ernst 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted March 27, 2018 Share #248 Posted March 27, 2018 I have shared this with Leica in Germany and the UK. I have shared this via Twitter with Thorsten personally. He can in no way claim not to understand how this whole community feels. He was last active here this evening. If he has any respect at all for this forum, he should post a response here, not just via his newsletter. 12 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted March 27, 2018 Share #249 Posted March 27, 2018 I have shared this with Leica in Germany and the UK. I have shared this via Twitter with Thorsten personally. He can in no way claim not to understand how this whole community feels. If he has any respect at all for this forum, he should post a response here, not just via his newsletter. He’s amended the web page to reduce the number of reference to elephant hide, so he’s obviously read the criticism both here and elsewhere. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted March 27, 2018 Share #250 Posted March 27, 2018 Most "legal" Elephant hide comes from South East Asia where hundreds of Elephants are killed yearly for their parts. They come with "genuine" certificates which can be obtained by corruption, and with declarations of origin purporting to be from Africa. There are thought to be about 35.000 Asian Elephants left, despite higher official figures. And to think that regionally, there are even less. Badly poached areas like Vietnam there are only around 80 in the wild, and in Myanmar 1000-2000. What is left is turning up skinned, that is the new fad. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted March 27, 2018 Share #251 Posted March 27, 2018 Not good enough, Steve. He should publicly state that he will stop using the “sexy stuff” immediately. Otherwise, it’s that abhorrent, sick business as usual. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted March 27, 2018 Share #252 Posted March 27, 2018 (edited) Exactly, Andy. The ‘sanitizing’ of text, etc makes it worse IMO. And, btw, similar discussion exists in other forums as well. Jono, for instance, has posted on the ‘Obscene’ thread on Get DPI. Jeff Edited March 27, 2018 by Jeff S 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted March 27, 2018 Share #253 Posted March 27, 2018 Jono is a very good man. Good to see that GetDPI are also on the case. The more people, around the world, telling Thorsten he is wrong and should change his ways, the better. IMHO. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted March 27, 2018 Share #254 Posted March 27, 2018 We have well established our opinions regarding the subject. It would be insightful to read of animal skin enthusiasts. We had one in this group some time ago, but he evaporated (may they all do such). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted March 27, 2018 Share #255 Posted March 27, 2018 Hang on... Most of us have animal skin leather shoes, belts and wallets. Some of us have leather handbags or seats in our cars. The difference is that my leather seats and wallet don’t come from endangered species. And the meat inside the leather went to the food chain. Not all animal skin is the same. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 27, 2018 Share #256 Posted March 27, 2018 His Forum name is Overgaard. I PMed him here, as follows: And he replied, as follows: Make of his reply what you will - and if revealing the contents of our private conversation makes me a vile little turd of a person, I will gladly wear that label. I have been called worse by my own mother and lived to tell. I'll say just one thing to this: anyone who thinks that "Zimbabwe" inspires trust and confidence and guarantees that everything is above-board, hasn't read one newspaper during the last fifteen years... 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.liam Posted March 27, 2018 Share #257 Posted March 27, 2018 Reprehensible. I’ve unsubscribed myself from his usually informative blog. I suggest you all do the same 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 27, 2018 Share #258 Posted March 27, 2018 We have well established our opinions regarding the subject. It would be insightful to read of animal skin enthusiasts. We had one in this group some time ago, but he evaporated (may they all do such). Actually, I think that if an animal has been killed ethically, and that is a huge if for an endangered species, if not a contradiction, it is a mark of respect to use all of it and let nothing go to waste. For a naturally dead wild animal that means: let Nature take its course. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted March 27, 2018 Share #259 Posted March 27, 2018 Not good enough, Steve. He should publicly state that he will stop using the “sexy stuff” immediately. Otherwise, it’s that abhorrent, sick business as usual. The amendments show that he’s aware of the criticism. The fact that he’s done so little indicates how much it means to him. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted March 27, 2018 Share #260 Posted March 27, 2018 We have well established our opinions regarding the subject. It would be insightful to read of animal skin enthusiasts. We had one in this group some time ago, but he evaporated (may they all do such). Hang on... Most of us have animal skin leather shoes, belts and wallets. Some of us have leather handbags or seats in our cars. The difference is that my leather seats and wallet don’t come from endangered species. And the meat inside the leather went to the food chain. Not all animal skin is the same. Andy, if you were replying to Pico, I think he was referring to the person who used to be on the forum bragging about all the African big game he’d shot. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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