Summilux 50mm ASPH - material..?

[Leon Berg]

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Hey Leica friends, 

can anyone lead me to a statement whether brass is generally considered to be of more longevity or what's the reason behind it, that people dare to 

carry such a heavy lens like the 50 Asph in silver? I had it in my hands briefly, once. I found it to be quite heavy.. BUT: something got me about it.. just the fact, that it's

built like a tank. from a user standpoint it is a pain to use, I read that over and over.. 

is it better built? I hear it is harder to focus and I felt the same about the silver copy I had in my hands two years ago. I just bought the black version, it is nice, but I liked the finish more if the silver one, it just reminds me more of "good old german times" when quality was the top priority.. the aluminium black one is fine, but hey, it's no lightweight either.. would it bother me too much carrying it around for longer periods of time with the extra 130g, is what I ask myself. I used mirrorless canon bodies before with heavy zeiss glass with an adapter.. so I know about front heavy! 😄

My heaviest lens was 1200g.. so what's the fuss about 460g

 

Who has the silver and loves it? 

[IkarusJohn]

I don’t know about longevity, but my 50 Summilux ASPH and 28 Summaron (and probably my 50 Summitar) are brass, and lovely to use.  I prefer the feel to my aluminium lenses.

There was a lot of discussion when the 50 Summilux ASPH was released about the stiff focusing ring, particularly at the point where the floating lens element was engaged.  When I was watching television (rare these days) or watching a movie, I worked the focus ring back and forth and after a relatively short period of time, it was butter smooth.

One of my favourite lenses, without question.

[didier]

I find my chrome (brass made) Lenses (and even more, bodies) tend to cosmetically hold time better. They look new whatever their age.

and as @IkarusJohn wrote, they are so smooth to use  . So is my black chrome 50 lux ASPH.

But, being heavier, a Leica dealer once told me the brass lenses are more prone to get some play in the mecanics over time than their aluminium counterparts. And are more prone to damage when falling (since heavier). I have not experienced this yet, apart from a 50 year old chrome summicron that has more play than the black aluminium ones

[M11 for me]

I think that originally all lenses were brass. Whoever loves old style goes for brass. I did anyway.

On the other hand to me the 50mm Lux in silver is clearly too heavy for an M camera: It pulls down the front what makes it less comfortable to carry. Its probably less about the pure weight. Its about the pulling down.

To me it was at the end a mistake to buy that heavy lens. Later I added a 50mm Summarit. The Lux is not (or very rarely) used any more.

[IkarusJohn]

17 minutes ago, M11 for me said:

I think that originally all lenses were brass. Whoever loves old style goes for brass. I did anyway.

On the other hand to me the 50mm Lux in silver is clearly too heavy for an M camera: It pulls down the front what makes it less comfortable to carry. Its probably less about the pure weight. Its about the pulling down.

To me it was at the end a mistake to buy that heavy lens. Later I added a 50mm Summarit. The Lux is not (or very rarely) used any more.

Well, being a 21 Summilux, 28 Summilux, Noctilux & 75 Summilux user, the 50 Summillux ASPH in silver chrome on brass is about … perfect! 😂

[M11 for me]

vor 15 Minuten schrieb IkarusJohn:

Well, being a 21 Summilux, 28 Summilux, Noctilux & 75 Summilux user, the 50 Summillux ASPH in silver chrome on brass is about … perfect! 😂

Perfect.

For me the M stands for small, light, beautifull und top quality. 

I carried heavy gear in a backpack for many years . . .

You certainly understand but I must say after all that I envy you great gear a bit. 

And finally: I did not sell my 50mm Summilux in silver. After all I did not.

[IkarusJohn]

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3 minutes ago, M11 for me said:

Perfect.

For me the M stands for small, light, beautifull und top quality. 

I carried heavy gear in a backpack for many years . . .

You certainly understand but I must say after all that I envy you great gear a bit. 

And finally: I did not sell my 50mm Summilux in silver. After all I did not.

I’m embarrased to say that is only the big stuff - I also have a 28 Summaron-M, 35 APO Summicron & 50 APO Summicron … I hope the worse is past! 🫣

[Leon Berg]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb didier:

I find my chrome (brass made) Lenses (and even more, bodies) tend to cosmetically hold time better. They look new whatever their age.

and as @IkarusJohn wrote, they are so smooth to use  . So is my black chrome 50 lux ASPH.

But, being heavier, a Leica dealer once told me the brass lenses are more prone to get some play in the mecanics over time than their aluminium counterparts. And are more prone to damage when falling (since heavier). I have not experienced this yet, apart from a 50 year old chrome summicron that has more play than the black aluminium ones

Interesting, what was the source of this statement? 

I know some mechanics and engineers of Leica and will ask them about this, whether there is some scientific fact about it. 

 

[jgeenen]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb didier:

But, being heavier, a Leica dealer once told me the brass lenses are more prone to get some play in the mecanics over time than their aluminium counterparts

Ok, a heavier lens barrel might will produce more torque on the helicoid, so obviously there is more potential for wear. If this is substantial (remember, we are talking about 100-200g difference for the whole lens and the moving parts are just a fraction of this; and there is grease in-between the helicoid layers which should take most of the friction), I don't know (and honestly I doubt that a Leica dealer has the expertise to state that). 

What I do know is that most - if not all - lenses use a material mix in construction. Even on the standard lens finishes with aluminium housing the moving parts (e.g. helicoid) are made of brass, you can see this when looking at your lenses from below (ok, the latest modern lenses have this aera covered).

 

[lct]

5 hours ago, didier said:

[...] But, being heavier, a Leica dealer once told me the brass lenses are more prone to get some play in the mecanics over time than their aluminium counterparts. And are more prone to damage when falling (since heavier). I have not experienced this yet, apart from a 50 year old chrome summicron that has more play than the black aluminium ones [...]

My chrome Summicrons from the 60s have not more play than black anodized lenses. The issue with the Summilux 50/1.4 asph v1 is the chrome variant pulling down the front making it less comfortable to use, the way i felt it. The chrome Summilux 50/1.4 v3 has not this problem but remains significantly heavier than the black anodized variant, let alone the 50/1.4 v4 (Reissue) which is even heavier but i have no experience with it. Aside from cosmetics i see no significant reason to prefer silver chrome lenses but it is a matter of taste obviously.

[Leon Berg]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb jgeenen:

Ok, a heavier lens barrel might will produce more torque on the helicoid, so obviously there is more potential for wear. If this is substantial (remember, we are talking about 100-200g difference for the whole lens and the moving parts are just a fraction of this; and there is grease in-between the helicoid layers which should take most of the friction), I don't know (and honestly I doubt that a Leica dealer has the expertise to state that). 

What I do know is that most - if not all - lenses use a material mix in construction. Even on the standard lens finishes with aluminium housing the moving parts (e.g. helicoid) are made of brass, you can see this when looking at your lenses from below (ok, the latest modern lenses have this aera covered).

 

Absolutely agree to the statement about the expertise. 
You own the black version, if I am not mistaken? 

I have it and something in me wants the chrome. Thats because I can return the black and could have a package deal from a dealer for a silver 50 and 35. That's what made me write in the first place about the material issue. 

People who use and stick and get used to the silver version seem to love it. I don't know if I can switch and not regret it.. I am just a weird person in this regard.. 

photos should be  more important but "you eat with your eyes first.."

[jgeenen]

vor 54 Minuten schrieb Leon Berg:

You own the black version, if I am not mistaken? 

Yes, I have the black one. I have an Elmar-M in chrome. The finish is nice and the contrast between camera and lens is certainly appealing. But the bigger the lens, the more I lean towards the weight reduction of a standard lens with non-brass barrel. However you can easily compensate the extra of the chrome lens with the weight-reduced black chrome M11 body ....

[Leon Berg]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb jgeenen:

Yes, I have the black one. I have an Elmar-M in chrome. The finish is nice and the contrast between camera and lens is certainly appealing. But the bigger the lens, the more I lean towards the weight reduction of a standard lens with non-brass barrel. However you can easily compensate the extra of the chrome lens with the weight-reduced black chrome M11 body ....

That’s for sure possible.. I just don’t know about the weight distribution

something tells me to be a man about it, go for the silver and just stick to it. My gut says silver. Not that the black one is built in an insufficient way, it’s just.. sometimes I want to carry more and please my materialistic faible.. 

Of course I admit it can lead to regret because it’s very heavy .. but I mean it’s nothing compared to a DSLR lens. 460g is light for a good prime on a slr 

[wizard]

vor 15 Minuten schrieb Leon Berg:

something tells me to be a man about it, go for the silver and just stick to it.

Ha, there you go. I have a chrome M11P and a chrome LHSA 1.4/50 asph., and it is a gorgeous combination in every conceivable way. I actually like the weight distribution of that combination, too (which probably benefits from the additional weight of the chrome M11 body).

[Leon Berg]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb wizard:

Ha, there you go. I have a chrome M11P and a chrome LHSA 1.4/50 asph., and it is a gorgeous combination in every conceivable way. I actually like the weight distribution of that combination, too (which probably benefits from the additional weight of the chrome M11 body).

Your chrome LHSA 50mm is a lightweight compared to the 11892, isn't it? 😀
 

[farnz]

One property of brass is that is often overlooked is that it is self-lubricating.  It is good design practice to add grease or another lubricant, which Leica does to its hellicoid as a matter of course, but as time redistributes the lubricant to other places owing to use, gravity, wear, thermal expansion and contraction etc then the natural brass lubrication will still protect against frictional wear.

Pete.

[Leon Berg]

I know also think about the Black Chrome, the dealer that I spoke to has that too. Bye bye, black aluminum lens..

[jgeenen]

vor 58 Minuten schrieb farnz:

then the natural brass lubrication will still protect against frictional wear.

I doubt that this would be sufficient, instead oxidation might ruin a non lubricated helicoid thread over time. The „self lubrication“ helps during manufacturing, that makes brass an ideal material in the combination of durability, availability, cost and versatility. But anyhow, since the helicoids of Leica lenses are made of brass regardless of the outer material, you won‘t notice the difference. 

[farnz]

2 hours ago, jgeenen said:

But anyhow, since the helicoids of Leica lenses are made of brass regardless of the outer material, you won‘t notice the difference. 

Not all Leica lenses have aluminium helicoids but often those with brass barrels to minimise weight.

Pete.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[wizard]

vor 20 Stunden schrieb Leon Berg:

Your chrome LHSA 50mm is a lightweight compared to the 11892, isn't it?

Dunno, I actually never thought much about the weight, the combination just looks, works and handles great.

Edited August 7 by wizard