50mm Summilux ASPH Edges

[NigelG]

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Unlike M240, Liveview or EVF focus patch is movable on M10, also SL601.  Old hat on Sony Alpha or my 10 years old Nikon D700..

 

As an M240 user I tried using the focus peaking in the EVF with no magnification to catch focus wide open off centre in the frame but it's not that reliable.....and edge subjects can get lost in the gloaming of the natural vignette with some lenses w/o anyway. 

Edited February 27, 2018 by NigelG

[mmradman]

Well, that was the limitation of M240 platform, you can magnify but not move away from the centre. I wouldn’t dream using live view on N240/246 for critical edge focusing, after all it is RF camera.

[jmahto]

I don't know what camera you have, but I have an M10 and tried it using Live View on the back of the camera to remove the rangefinder or lens calibration as a potential cause.  I can magnify and point the focus point on the subject on the right side of the frame.  From there I used the focus peaking and just what I could see myself.  That's how I'm arriving at "it must be the lens".

Interesting thread... and quick question to understand what you are doing. When your subject is off center then did you move the zoom focus (possible on M10) to your off center subject and did best focusing using magnified view and not focus peaking (which is fuzzy)?

 

If you did the above, then your results for sharpness are the best possible for f/1.4. It is understandable that off center will be less sharp than center. How much depends on MTF curve of the lens. Look it up. If you are still not happy then you can i) switch to 50APO or ii) stop down.

 

Now M is a RF camera and doing what you did in tripod and LV will not be possible in a quick RF focusing. You can still get better by understanding how much to compensate after recomposing (by leaning back or front depends on the result of your experiment) but it requires practice.

 

At the end in practice, if you insist on using manual focus camera to take pictures of your 10 year old who is moving all the time, then the only thing that works is lots of practice. I will still shoot with wide open since it allows me to keep shutter speed high. Have fun while shooting and don't worry about sharpness. M works best to capture the moment and a captured smile or facial expression is more of a treasure than a sharp eye.

[jaapv]

Whatever else, I find it hard to visualise a photographic style where extreme edge sharpness @ 1.4 is of overwhelming importance for the artistic results

[jmahto]

Whatever else, I find it hard to visualise a photographic style where extreme edge sharpness @ 1.4 is of overwhelming importance for the artistic results

Quite true, however I can see from OP's point of view. When I first got 50 lux ASPH (my first ever Leica lens), I was also obsessed (at least I was) with finding the limits of this lens. First month, I shot more to experiment than to take real picture. It is a phase when you are trying to find out why this lens costs more than a perfectly good Canikon lens you had so far that costed so much less.

 

Bruce Less once said.... "Before I studied the art, a punch to me was just like a punch, a kick just like a kick. After I learned the art, a punch was no longer a punch, a kick no longer a kick. Now that I've understood the art, a punch is just like a punch, a kick just like a kick."

 

Now for me 50Lux is just a lens... to take beautiful pictures and nothing else.

[jhgnag]

Interesting thread... and quick question to understand what you are doing. When your subject is off center then did you move the zoom focus (possible on M10) to your off center subject and did best focusing using magnified view and not focus peaking (which is fuzzy)?

 

If you did the above, then your results for sharpness are the best possible for f/1.4. It is understandable that off center will be less sharp than center. How much depends on MTF curve of the lens. Look it up. If you are still not happy then you can i) switch to 50APO or ii) stop down.

 

Now M is a RF camera and doing what you did in tripod and LV will not be possible in a quick RF focusing. You can still get better by understanding how much to compensate after recomposing (by leaning back or front depends on the result of your experiment) but it requires practice.

 

At the end in practice, if you insist on using manual focus camera to take pictures of your 10 year old who is moving all the time, then the only thing that works is lots of practice. I will still shoot with wide open since it allows me to keep shutter speed high. Have fun while shooting and don't worry about sharpness. M works best to capture the moment and a captured smile or facial expression is more of a treasure than a sharp eye.

 

Thank you for the reply.  I did indeed use the magnified view and also focus peaking.  I tried the same set up shooting a ruler at an angle at the side as well.  At f/1.4, nothing on the ruler was in perfect focus.  It just tells me that it's a characteristic of the lens.  I'm not faulting the lens, just trying to understand it.  I also understand what you are saying about making adjustments when recomposing, but even if I do everything perfectly and my subject is too far to the side or top (portrait orientation), it will never be perfectly sharp at f/1.4.

 

 

Whatever else, I find it hard to visualise a photographic style where extreme edge sharpness @ 1.4 is of overwhelming importance for the artistic results

 

I often orient faces in the left or right 1/3 of the image.  The closest eye is usually the one nearest the edge and there is a good chance it may look a little blurry or out of focus at 1.4.  I'm not sure I could comment as to the style or artistry, but I do know I really like razor sharp eyes and even more so razor sharp reflections in the eyes.  Maybe to a fault.  I do also realize that this manual rangefinder and not autofocus with it's own set of compromises.

 

Below is another picture that shows the orientation I often use.  I doubt this one is at f/1.4, and the eyes are pretty good, but not perfect.  You can see how close her left eye is getting to the edge.  Maybe not everyone's cup of tea, but I like it.  I think shutter speed was OK at 1/350th, but maybe I never got the focus right to begin with.

 

I'm just trying to understand my gear, get the most out of it, and get better at what I do.  Thanks for all the comments.

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[jaapv]

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Well, yes, I see your point, although I probably would have been at 2.8 or 4.0 for this shot. Anyway, I don't think any 1.4 50 has extreme sharpness in corners and edges @ 1.4. Even the much, much larger Zeiss and Sigma lenses don't manage it.

[lct]

MTF graphs are self explanatory but this lens is not free from field curvature at f/1.4 so better use a moveable focus patch to nail focus elsewhere than at the centre of the frame actually. Now how many of us can do that when shooting moving kids to be honest? The rangefinder is faster than any other manual focusing device i know of but due to its fixed focus patch it can only give an approximation. Only alternative is more reasonable apertures besides autofocus but this is another story. 

 

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[jhgnag]

Well, yes, I see your point, although I probably would have been at 2.8 or 4.0 for this shot. Anyway, I don't think any 1.4 50 has extreme sharpness in corners and edges @ 1.4. Even the much, much larger Zeiss and Sigma lenses don't manage it.

 

 

Thank you.  I really don't recall what f-stop I used, but it may very well have been 1.4 as I am mesmerized by the out-of-focus (thankfully I can't afford a Noctilux ).  I think I definitely need to be more judicious in using 2.8 - 4 for faces, if for no other reason than to keep nose to ears in focus.  I'm also happy to hear this seems to be no better in other, similarly sized lenses.

[jhgnag]

MTF graphs are self explanatory but this lens is not free from field curvature at f/1.4 so better use a moveable focus patch to nail focus elsewhere than at the centre of the frame actually. Now how many of us can do that when shooting moving kids to be honest? The rangefinder is faster than any other manual focusing device i know of but due to its fixed focus patch it can only give an approximation. Only alternative is more reasonable apertures besides autofocus but this is another story. 

 

5014a_chart_f14.jpg

 

Well, I wouldn't assume it's self-explanatory to me.  I will have to research how to read this.  I assume somewhere in there it tells me that the edges are softer at, and approaching f/1.4.  And yes, I have arrived at f/2.8 - 4 may very well be my friend here.  Interestingly, as sharp as the SL + 24-90 is, it's already at f/4+ at 90mm, so not really a fair comparison.  

 

This is all factoring into, "Do I keep the SL and sell the M10, or the reverse?"  The SL was acquired via M9 upgrade from Leica, so I'm trying to make some decisions.  Of course if money were no object...I'd keep both!

[lct]

Catching the decisive moment is easier with a compact camera in my modest experience. Your nice pic above is a success from this viewpoint. Are you sure you could do the same whilst shoving a big zoom lens in your children's faces? Only you can know that. 

[jhgnag]

Catching the decisive moment is easier with a compact camera in my modest experience. Your nice pic above is a success from this viewpoint. Are you sure you could do the same whilst shoving a big zoom lens in your children's faces? Only you can know that. 

 

 

I think the first question is "Would I even have the SL and big zoom with me on a walk with my kid".  Probably not.  But then what about SL + 50mm Summilux-M.  Who knows?  It's all enough to make me crazy!

[Herr Barnack]

Hello,

 

I  hope that this hasn't already been asked/answered.

 

I've been frustrated with the edges of my pictures being out of focus with my 50mm Summilux ASPH when shot at f 1.4.

 

I've attached two photos, with the second recomposed.  The eyes when the subject is on the right (or left) is out of focus or maybe smeared.  Is this normal?  I tried this on a tripod as well, using the EVF to focus on the subject off to the side with the same results.  It must be the lens...

 

Thanks.

 

To my eye, it looks like the subject on the right if farther away from the camera than the toy soldier is.  If that's the case, it is out of the depth of field of the lens.  At f/1.4. the depth of field of the Summilux is very thin, particularly up close.

 

To remedy this, you need to either move the subject on the right closer to the camera so it is in the DOF of the lens at f/1.4 or stop down to a smaller aperture - perhaps f/2.8 or f/4 - so the smaller aperture creates more DOF to include the subject on the right in the zone of acceptably sharp focus.

Edited February 28, 2018 by Herr Barnack

[Keith (M)]

Reading this thread last night, out of interest I picked up my M240 & Summilux 50mm ASPH and took the screenshot below. f1.4, 1/180sec, ISO 200, hand-held at min focus distance.  Now of course, it may be that the camera was not perfectly square to the screen but one can see that there is a change in sharpness from centre to edge.

 

But in real life I have not noticed problems with field curvature...

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Edited February 28, 2018 by Keith (M)

[Peter H]

Well, I wouldn't assume it's self-explanatory to me.  I will have to research how to read this.  I assume somewhere in there it tells me that the edges are softer at, and approaching f/1.4.  And yes, I have arrived at f/2.8 - 4 may very well be my friend here.  Interestingly, as sharp as the SL + 24-90 is, it's already at f/4+ at 90mm, so not really a fair comparison.  

 

This is all factoring into, "Do I keep the SL and sell the M10, or the reverse?"  The SL was acquired via M9 upgrade from Leica, so I'm trying to make some decisions.  Of course if money were no object...I'd keep both!

There’s a least one thing you’re absolutely right about; MTF graphs are not self-explanatory!

[Nordvik]

I did a test with Zeiss Planar 2,0/50 at 1 meter.

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[Nordvik]

No refocus:

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[Nordvik]

Refocus using Live View on the M10 LCD:

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[Flu]

Hello,

 

I  hope that this hasn't already been asked/answered.

 

I've been frustrated with the edges of my pictures being out of focus with my 50mm Summilux ASPH when shot at f 1.4.

 

I've attached two photos, with the second recomposed.  The eyes when the subject is on the right (or left) is out of focus or maybe smeared.  Is this normal?  I tried this on a tripod as well, using the EVF to focus on the subject off to the side with the same results.  It must be the lens...

 

Thanks.

 

This is normal for this lens. It's not suppose to be sharp at the edges @ 1.4. Even if use a camera with live view such as an SL and move the focus point to the far edges to confirm sharpest possible focus, the results will be the same. 

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[IkarusJohn]

I love the photo of your daughter on the gate, and I don’t think it suffers from being a little soft. That is really the nature to the 50 Summilux-M at 1.4, I’m afraid. If you want it sharper you need to stop down a little (the impact on the out of focus area won’t be too bad) or switch to the 50 Summilux-SL - it’s portable, but big.