Thoughts regarding 28 R Elmarit version II vs 28 M Elmarit ASPH?

[james.liam]

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I've owned the excellent R version for many years, mount reversibly converted to Nikon F. The Nikons are gone and I'm considering an M262 or M10 (with a Visoflex, of course). Is the smaller and newer M preferable to this classic and stellar R?

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[Gregm61]

The M Elmarit it tiny, tiny. Can’t imagine any R lens being preferrable to it on the rangefinder unless some already owns it as you do, and it’s cheap to adaprt.

[a.noctilux]

I use some 28mm on my M, and the Elmarit-M 2.8/28 asph. (I have the first "old" version), one of the Leica best buy for money for me,

and it's IQ and handling are the best of my 28mm.

 

Compared with my Summicron-M 2/28mm asph. (first "old" also ! ), from f/2.8 nothing to complain with tiny gem.

[james.liam]

Anyone have experience with the RII as well, to offer insight and comparison?

[lct]

Elmarit-R 28/2.8 v2. Great lens indeed. I have not the latest version (11333) but the previous one (11259) w/o ROM contacts. Was my favorite 28 on Canon 5D1. Its rendition is similar to that of the latest Elmarit-M 28/2.8 pre-asph. Compared to my 28/2.8 asph v1, the latter is sharper at f/2.8 with some slightly harsher bokeh but at f/4 and on i find it hard to tell which is better. I have never used the R 28/2.8 v2 on M cameras though. Being a retrofocus lens, i suspect it would have less issues in corners and edges at full aperture but it is just a guess. BTW the R 28/2.8 v2 has floating elements allowing to focus at 0.3m vs 0.7m for the M 28/2.8 asph v1. See excerpts of Leica specs attached below.

 

LeicaR_2828_11333_spec.pdf

LeicaM_2828a_11606_spec.pdf

Edited February 14, 2018 by lct

[Metin Colak]

Dear Friends,

I cant't decide between Elmarit-R 28mm f2.8 V2 (11259) and Elmarit-M 28mm f2.8 Pre-Asph version. I read Erwin Puttz books on R and M lenses. And I compared the charts (28M and R) in these two books. However, I still cannot decide. Real life example, as you know, is different..  I will use it on my M240. The R version's minimum focusing distance is really tempting (30cm).  And I heard that R version (E55-11259) produces more subtle colours which might be very useful for landscape and environmental portraits.. Its rendering seems between high-end asph. lenses and classical era lenses (maybe close to Mandler's look which I like and very important for me). Is there anybody here who own both?  It will be greatly appreciated if you place side-by side two photos taken with these lenses.

Thank you.

 

[AndreasG]

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Take the M Pre-ASPH Elmarit, it is a great lens, though a little bulky (I one one for more than 30 years), the optical performance is excellent!

[Metin Colak]

45 minutes ago, AndreasG said:

Take the M Pre-ASPH Elmarit, it is a great lens, though a little bulky (I one one for more than 30 years), the optical performance is excellent!

Thanks for the reply Andreas.. So you prefer M (Pre-Asph) version over R (v2).. 

[lct]

You mean R 28/2.8 v2 (11259) vs M 28/2.8 v4 (11809) i guess. Do you expect to use the lens with the M240's rangefinder? If so, forget the R version which cannot focus in RF mode. Otherwise, be prepared to use the Visoflex only, which is not a modern EVF as you know. Anyway, Leica specs show similar results at the centre of the frame and slightly better ones for the M version at edges and corners. Given that the R version is significantly bulkier, taking the R to M adapter into account, there are little reasons to prefer the R version on the M240 IMHO. The R version could be interesting on the SL though.

Edited November 2, 2019 by lct

[Metin Colak]

1 minute ago, lct said:

You mean R 28/2.8 v2 (11259) vs M 28/2.8 v4 (11809) i guess. Do you expect to use the lens with the M240's rangefinder? If so, forget the R version which cannot focus in RF mode. Otherwise, be prepared to use the Visoflex only, which is not a modern EVF as you know. Anyway, Leica specs show similar results at the centre of the frame and slighter better ones for the M version at edges and corners. Given that the R version is significantly bulkier, taking the R to M adapter into account, there are little reasons to prefer the R version on the M240 IMHO. The R version could be interesting on the SL though.

Thanks for the reply ICT. I have an R to M adapter. I can use it with EVF, no problem.. I juts would like to know whether there is significant difference between the two lenses in terms of colour rendering (more subtle colour I see in the photos on some websites taken with R v2 ) when both used on an digital M body.  I did not see enough photographs taken with M9 or M240 with the R28 v2. Thanks again..

[lct]

May i ask if you intend to shoot jpegs only?

[Metin Colak]

17 minutes ago, lct said:

May i ask if you intend to shoot jpegs only?

No, I shoot Raw-DNG only and convert them to jpeg.. And one morepoint, as far as I can see I see more 3D ness in the photos taken with the 28R v2. I think this 3D ness occur not only because of different colour gradatlons but also some ver well controlled minor spherical abberation. 

[dkCambridgeshire]

The problem with the Elmarit R 28/2.8 VII is finding one - they fly off dealers' shelves and are seldom listed. If you manage to find an example at a reasonable price (less than £1200) it will likely hold its value. I've only seen one listed by a UK dealer during the last 6 months. Some R lenses continue to be very sought after and some dealers may have waiting lists - thus they may not appear in their s/h sales listings.  I use a Leica R PC 28/2.8 Super Angulon on my SL 601 and am amazed by its sharpness ... not usually considered for use on an M but I'd give it a try if I had an M240 or later M digital. 

dunk  

[lct]

1 hour ago, Metin Colak said:

No, I shoot Raw-DNG only and convert them to jpeg.. And one morepoint, as far as I can see I see more 3D ness in the photos taken with the 28R v2. I think this 3D ness occur not only because of different colour gradatlons but also some ver well controlled minor spherical abberation. 

I have no experience with either lens on the M240 but both being Leica lenses from the nineties, i would not expect significant color differences between them. As for 3D ness, i don't count my M & R lenses any more but i would be totally unable to tell you which has more or less of that, at least between lenses from the same generation. Sounds like i cannot help you much here sorry but other colleagues will be more useful than me hopefully. Happy snaps .

[AndreasG]

vor 9 Stunden schrieb Metin Colak:

So you prefer M (Pre-Asph) version over R (v2).. 

Since I don't own the R version, I cannot make a direct comparison. However, I keep from the R series the 50 and 90 Summicron. The latter I use via adapter and Visoflex 020 with a M10-D, but it is bulky and slow handling compared to M-lenses.  And, (OT), the 50 R-Summicron found its place at a Nikon F3P with a Leitax adapter, a good combination.

My simple recommendation is, use M lenses with M bodies.

[Metin Colak]

9 hours ago, lct said:

I have no experience with either lens on the M240 but both being Leica lenses from the nineties, i would not expect significant color differences between them. As for 3D ness, i don't count my M & R lenses any more but i would be totally unable to tell you which has more or less of that, at least between lenses from the same generation. Sounds like i cannot help you much here sorry but other colleagues will be more useful than me hopefully. Happy snaps .

Thanks for your generous feedback(s), as always, ICT.. Maybe I should try the both before my final decision..

Thanks again.. 

[Metin Colak]

10 hours ago, dkCambridgeshire said:

The problem with the Elmarit R 28/2.8 VII is finding one - they fly off dealers' shelves and are seldom listed. If you manage to find an example at a reasonable price (less than £1200) it will likely hold its value. I've only seen one listed by a UK dealer during the last 6 months. Some R lenses continue to be very sought after and some dealers may have waiting lists - thus they may not appear in their s/h sales listings.  I use a Leica R PC 28/2.8 Super Angulon on my SL 601 and am amazed by its sharpness ... not usually considered for use on an M but I'd give it a try if I had an M240 or later M digital. 

dunk  

Thank you Dunk.. I found very little information, comments, comparisons about this R28 v2. Even there is no information about the designer of this lens.. The V1 designer seems Rudolf Ruehl, but this one looks like an 'enigma'. Considering its first lunch, it seems it is the re-design of the Leica team, or the design of the combination of Leica tradition with Minolta cooperation/period. 

In the M world, Walter Mandler seems the designer of the M28 VII, however situation for the M28 v4 seems like the R28v2'.

Maybe we should keep our silence on the R28 v2 since the price is going up and up as you underlined

Best regards,

Metin Colak.

Edited November 3, 2019 by Metin Colak

[AndreasG]

vor 33 Minuten schrieb Metin Colak:

I found very little information, comments, comparisons about this R28 v2

There is some limited information, though in Geman language here in the forum:

 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[lct]

Erwin Puts wrote a bit about the R 28/2.8 v2 (link).

[a.noctilux]

From Wiki Elmarit-R 28mm II

435g for 2.8/28mm lens that is heavy !

comparing to 180g of the M asph. version which I like, nothing to complain (or maybe, it's compactness can be too much for good handling).

 

Rare indeed, 28mm R II version only 3,700 + units made