Chaemono Posted January 16, 2018 Share #281 Posted January 16, 2018 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) If some wish to bash Leica for its price/performance on the acuity front, its hard, if not impossible, to argue that there aren't alternatives that offer far more value for dollar.Well stated. I don’t mind the lack of acuity in the M10 pictures at all as long as they have more acutance. https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-Jfdr66/ Edited January 16, 2018 by Chaemono Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 16, 2018 Posted January 16, 2018 Hi Chaemono, Take a look here DXO Mark Leica M10 Score. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
TrickyMrT Posted January 16, 2018 Share #282 Posted January 16, 2018 Thank you Chaemono! After comparing your images Sony vs M10 it is clear to see that the Sony offers a much better detail and contrast. For a $6000 camera like the Leica M10, we all should expect a better detail and contrast image quality. For me, it is more than clear, that the sensor of the Leica is far behind the competitors. And excuse me all, but I´m sure a better sensor in the M10 would give us a better image quality regarding color high ISO and Dynamic Range. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted January 16, 2018 Share #283 Posted January 16, 2018 The only one of the three lenses used on the Sony that brings out the full potential of the α7R III sensor is the 55 Otus, IMO, and that's a bit unwieldy on that small body. Plus, one has to be careful not to bend the lens mount. As far as contrast and detail with the Planar 50/1.4 FE and the Sonnar 35/2.8 FE are concerned, the pictures speak for themselves https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-Jfdr66/ but apparently they don't speak to all eyes the same . 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
@ndy_ellis Posted January 17, 2018 Share #284 Posted January 17, 2018 The 25mm Batis is a good lens too. Big but very light so well balanced on the Sony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted January 17, 2018 Share #285 Posted January 17, 2018 And excuse me all, but I´m sure a better sensor in the M10 would give us a better image quality regarding color high ISO and Dynamic Range. Which bit of the technical explanations did you not understand? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailwagger Posted January 17, 2018 Share #286 Posted January 17, 2018 For a $6000 camera... And excuse me all, but I´m sure a better sensor in the M10 would give us a better image quality regarding color high ISO and Dynamic Range. If we're rounding, its a $7000 camera US. But from a cost per pixel standpoint, it offers better value compare to its competition than the S when compared to a Fuji or 'blad. More range, less noise. Pretty much the definition of a better sensor. So if the point is that better is better, okay, yup, I'm with you. As for the comparison shots, my eye's just don't see what TMrT is seeing. No offense to Chaemono, but I generally dont put much stock in this sort of comparison. They're fun but there are too many unstated variables, not to mention focus points and accuracy. That said having gone through a few at the original image size, I see little, if any, advantage from the added pixels and find the M10 noise level to be visibly lower with generally better WB. Regardless, if you cant take a great photograph with either of these cameras than one of two things is true. Either you just dont get it's ethos and are too busy fighting with it to achieve your vision... or you have none, in which case it doesn't much matter which camera you select. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregm61 Posted January 17, 2018 Share #287 Posted January 17, 2018 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) Anyone here feeling they've been sold an inferior camera with an inferior sensor, I would be more than willing to take it off your hands, of course, for a discounted price commensurate with the level of inferiority we can agree to. I might not agree, but I'll accept any level of perceived inferiority if it works in my favor, LOL. Edited January 17, 2018 by Gregm61 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkmoore Posted January 18, 2018 Share #288 Posted January 18, 2018 This conversation is stale. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdemeyer Posted January 18, 2018 Share #289 Posted January 18, 2018 Worse than stale. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrickyMrT Posted January 18, 2018 Share #290 Posted January 18, 2018 i don´t agree that it is stale, if you need to find out that your $6000 camera has a poor sensor performance.... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted January 18, 2018 Share #291 Posted January 18, 2018 Nobody and I mean nobody picks a Leica M camera based on DXO reports. Finding out what a bogus test score says after you buy a Leica camera I’d a fools errand. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al_OOF Posted January 18, 2018 Share #292 Posted January 18, 2018 My mood about the DXO test is this: - I tried the M10; after seeing the results I bought it and I slept peacefully. - I read the test and I continued to sleep peacefully. - It may be that the Sony sensor is better but I don’t care and I continue to sleep peacefully - Do I have any doubts about being stupid for spending so much money on a camera with a lower sensor? Absolutely not because the motivation of my purchase was not centered on the sensor (which however is very good) but on how the M10 works and how it allows me to photograph, then on the complete package and moreover I like the results. So I do not feel stupid and I keep quiet sleep and take pictures with joy and no regrets. 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralph Posted January 18, 2018 Share #293 Posted January 18, 2018 (edited) https://petapixel.com/2017/10/13/truth-dxomark-camera-ratings/ Excerpt from the article about smartphone tests from DxO: But there’s also another reason to take the scores with a grain of salt: the fact that DxOMark works with manufacturers (for a fee) to design cameras that score highly on DxOMark’s tests. “DxO Labs is a consulting company as well as a testing company,” Brownlee says. “For a fee, they will work with smartphone manufacturers before their phone comes out to create a better camera.” And here a selection of their customers from their website. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited January 18, 2018 by ralph 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/279882-dxo-mark-leica-m10-score/?do=findComment&comment=3443299'>More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted January 19, 2018 Share #294 Posted January 19, 2018 My mood about the DXO test is this: - I tried the M10; after seeing the results I bought it and I slept peacefully. ...I keep quiet sleep and take pictures with joy and no regrets. It's even better with me. I sometimes wake up in the middle of the night just to take pictures with the M10 and then go back to sleep. https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-Jfdr66/ 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M11 for me Posted January 19, 2018 Share #295 Posted January 19, 2018 Nobody and I mean nobody picks a Leica M camera based on DXO reports. Finding out what a bogus test score says after you buy a Leica camera I’d a fools errand. I imagine that this is not quite true. In many cases you mught be right. But in a situation that one has on his short list an M10 and the Sony 7 III then this might influence the final devision. Finally people make photographs with theyr cameras. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted January 19, 2018 Share #296 Posted January 19, 2018 I imagine that this is not quite true. In many cases you mught be right. But in a situation that one has on his short list an M10 and the Sony 7 III then this might influence the final devision. Finally people make photographs with theyr cameras. I disagree. If a choice between those two cameras had to be made, DXO reports would be the last thing one would use. One is a manual focus rangefinder system and one is not. Two completely different things. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted January 19, 2018 Share #297 Posted January 19, 2018 I'm sure my Sony A7II has a much better rating than my M9. In practice the M9 is used whenever I can use it - the A7II is only used when the M9 can't be used. Numbers, tests, comparisons and the like simply cannot compete with actual experience and usage of tools unless you have highly specific technical requirements (which few genuinely do). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark II Posted January 19, 2018 Share #298 Posted January 19, 2018 I disagree. If a choice between those two cameras had to be made, DXO reports would be the last thing one would use. One is a manual focus rangefinder system and one is not. Two completely different things. Well, as someone considering upgrading from an older M series model, the DXO measurements were very helpful and pretty much confirmed the more anecdotal reports of image quality, dynamic range and the non-native ISO 100. My experience of DXO measurements (ignore the overall score) is that they agree very well with what I see when actually using a camera, regardless of the make or sensor size/type. They do not describe everything about the system, but what they do describe is useful and seemingly accurate. I do not understand why existing owners seemingly care so much about the DXO data: the camera is the same as it was before the data was available. But for people interested in buying the camera - and for whom it is not possible to run their own detailed tests in advance - it is a useful data point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M11 for me Posted January 19, 2018 Share #299 Posted January 19, 2018 My mood about the DXO test is this: - I tried the M10; after seeing the results I bought it and I slept peacefully. - I read the test and I continued to sleep peacefully. - It may be that the Sony sensor is better but I don’t care and I continue to sleep peacefully - Do I have any doubts about being stupid for spending so much money on a camera with a lower sensor? Absolutely not because the motivation of my purchase was not centered on the sensor (which however is very good) but on how the M10 works and how it allows me to photograph, then on the complete package and moreover I like the results. So I do not feel stupid and I keep quiet sleep and take pictures with joy and no regrets. Somehow I envy you. I just exchanged an iPone 4 (the one of my wife) with an X and there is little difference in the IQ. Yes there are more fancy functions. However I bought the X and I am very happy. Its actually my wife using it. But next year I‘ll exchange my 6S with the X or maybe the 11. And I will sleep in peace because I understand nothing about . . . what? Yes I am very happy with my M10 but still we like competition and it is good to compare. I don‘t want to walk through our world with closed eyes. So enjoy the discussion here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M11 for me Posted January 19, 2018 Share #300 Posted January 19, 2018 (edited) https://petapixel.com/2017/10/13/truth-dxomark-camera-ratings/ Excerpt from the article about smartphone tests from DxO: But there’s also another reason to take the scores with a grain of salt: the fact that DxOMark works with manufacturers (for a fee) to design cameras that score highly on DxOMark’s tests. “DxO Labs is a consulting company as well as a testing company,” Brownlee says. “For a fee, they will work with smartphone manufacturers before their phone comes out to create a better camera.” And here a selection of their customers from their website. Are you aware what funny (if not fake) news you are distributing? In your post we see Fuji. What more can I say? Edited January 19, 2018 by Alex U. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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