delander † Posted July 1, 2007 Share #1 Posted July 1, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Just for interest - not a controlled test. Two photos taken a few minutes apart, both RAW files processed in c1LE using appropriate camera profiles, daylight white balance. I was pleased with the M8 colour and completely surprised by the 5D colour. I repeated the 5D image several times - same result it just looks faded. I have shot thousands of images with my 5D and never questioned the colour before. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/27987-does-the-m8-lack-colour/?do=findComment&comment=295694'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 1, 2007 Posted July 1, 2007 Hi delander †, Take a look here Does the M8 lack colour?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Artichoke Posted July 1, 2007 Share #2 Posted July 1, 2007 but I have to agree with you that the M8 produces gorgeous color ...reds & yellows are particularly telling (btw, why did you ever use the title you did for this thread?) I believe a great deal of the difference comes from the M8 employing a significantly higher bit rate with the analog digital converter then the Canon note that Canon has upped the sampling for their newest DSLR ...it is their only DSLR that captures at greater than 12 bit Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
photolandscape Posted July 1, 2007 Share #3 Posted July 1, 2007 It's kind of difficult assessing color on a laptop, but in looking at your images it doesn't appear as though your M8 is delivering a lack of color. If anything, the color balance is different--very common from camera to camera, lens to lens even when shooting the identical subject under indentical lighting. What I see is a difference in Auto White Balance--I'm seeing a yellower/greener overall cast, something that I see with my M8 and something that I believe will improve with the release of the next firmware soon. And it's something you can easily correct in a matter of seconds in CS2. Other than that, I think you have nothing to worry about. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nryn Posted July 1, 2007 Share #4 Posted July 1, 2007 There are so many variables at play between the sensor and the screen that it's hard to say one has "more" color than the other. Sure, in these two examples, the Leica image is clearly superior, but I'm sure with not a bunch of tweaking, the 5D image would be more than adequate, if not as good. "Straight out of the camera" settings and "default profiles" mean nothing, really, unless you must shoot JPEG, and even then there are many things which can be done in-camera and, within reasonable tolerances, in post processing to boost most parameters. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frv Posted July 1, 2007 Share #5 Posted July 1, 2007 the 5D sample looks a lot better although clearly has less contrast. The M8 file has no detail in the whites and less detail in general. Its bssicly looks as if it has been overproccesed. It would take me less than a few seconds to reproduce the colours of the M8 on the 5D file. I am very worried looking at the M8 file. I am sure someone with more knowledge than me and owning a M8 can explain. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_x2004 Posted July 2, 2007 Share #6 Posted July 2, 2007 Francois, view the exifs on both files, that might help. It could be the 90 elmarit is out of focus. The other thing is without hte full frame to see the extent of the crop it is hard to judge anything. I know th M8 file looks scary but it probably isnt hte cameras fault. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander † Posted July 2, 2007 Author Share #7 Posted July 2, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) To all who have replied. Sorry about the title – it was meant to be tongue in cheek. The images were taken in bright sunlight halfway through the afternoon and to me the M8 image has reproduced the scene more accurately than the 5D although I realise that the 5D image could be altered and that different cameras have different renditions. But I suppose if I had taken just the 5D image I might have accepted that as a correct rendition and done little to process it. There was a thread about the number of B&W images from the M8 posted here which sort of implied that colour was not a strong point of the M8. I get such stunning colour from the M8 that I thought it was worth emphasising it. The 5D shot was an afterthought but I was surprised at the difference from that camera lens combination. The background green is definitely more accurate from the M8 compared to the brown rendered by the 5D. British grass is very green at the moment! The elmarit was coded and had the Leica ir/uv filter. What is shown is about ¼ (in both cases) of the frame, mostly cropped at the sides. You cant get that close with the lenses used. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 2, 2007 Share #8 Posted July 2, 2007 Jeff - don't worry about the title - you are simply right, the colour is very pleasing on the M8 in your comparison. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frv Posted July 2, 2007 Share #9 Posted July 2, 2007 neither of the images look pleasing to me. The M8 file looks blown out as far as contrast and the 5D looks pale. But it might be when you took both shots the M8 seemed more accurate looking at the whole picture. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 2, 2007 Share #10 Posted July 2, 2007 That is true, the highlights on the M8 look a bit blown; I assume that is the Jpegcompression for the web. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_x2004 Posted July 2, 2007 Share #11 Posted July 2, 2007 Put me in to the bucket of just dont get it viewers; ....... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Still I guess they were taken on the same day...How does the pencil sketch look? Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Still I guess they were taken on the same day...How does the pencil sketch look? ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/27987-does-the-m8-lack-colour/?do=findComment&comment=296086'>More sharing options...
tom0511 Posted July 2, 2007 Share #12 Posted July 2, 2007 If we talk about color - look at the following image, one with the Leica M8 internal jpg, and the other one with c1, M8-UVIR-profile, without changing anything in WB or exposure. By the way, even though I have shot the image with manual Kelvin 5600 c1 shows 5450 K as the "as shot"-setting. I think the difference in colr and tones ist heavy and the same is true for skin tones. I have to say that to me jpg looks much better, in the example here as well as the green and also the pink and also the tones. Kind of same colors as in the other flower image thats why I posted. Might not only be the camera but also the profile and the jpg-engine. Any thoughts? Why is there no converter which can deliever as nice colors/tones as the M8-internal processor can? Cheers, Tom m8 original jpg: same file processed in c1 with M8uvir-profile, all settings "as shot": Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander † Posted July 2, 2007 Author Share #13 Posted July 2, 2007 Yes Rob A they were taken on the same day LOL! and at near the same time, the 5D clock is way off. But I did make a mistake in posting the 400 iso shot from the 5D. I hesitate to post another 5D shot in a Leica forum but just to set the record straight here is the 200 iso shot taken about 30 mins later (I realised I had made an error). The colour is still different from the M8 but I think now the two are closer? The original tif files do not have have blown-out highlights. However the M8 image was exposed at -.33ev to avoid this issue. Jeff Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/27987-does-the-m8-lack-colour/?do=findComment&comment=296190'>More sharing options...
robsteve Posted July 2, 2007 Share #14 Posted July 2, 2007 Jeff: Your post is a bit confusing. Are you trying to say the M8 lacks colour or the 5D lacks colour? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted July 2, 2007 Share #15 Posted July 2, 2007 Does the M8 lack colour? As i wiew it on my monitor your M8 pic looks oversaturated (mainly reds) and overcontrasty (blown highlights). I see also a bit of red cast. Did you use an IR-cut filter? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrc Posted July 2, 2007 Share #16 Posted July 2, 2007 Gee. As an M8 partisan, I have to say I'm pretty impressed by the initial 5D shot -- the crinkle in the petals. I also think that some post-processing would get you almost anywhere you want to go, with the exception of the OOF edges. The M8 looks a little over-cooked to me, but as Jaap said, that could net-prep. JC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reven Posted July 2, 2007 Share #17 Posted July 2, 2007 Sorry but what do you wanna say ? Sry if this is harsh, but these images are crap if you want to compare two cameras... I think the M8 shot is just a VERY bad shot. That's it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfarkas Posted July 3, 2007 Share #18 Posted July 3, 2007 Not to point out the obvious, but the 5D shot is pale, lifeless, and drab. Last time I was oustide, flowers and grass don't have a cyan-blue haze over them. Perhaps the M8 shot is a bit too warm, but I'll take life over lifeless any day. 5D files usually require a lot of saturation and contrast (plus sharpening) to please my eye. I'm not a huge fan of flat, undersaturated, and hazy. Just my taste. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticman Posted July 3, 2007 Share #19 Posted July 3, 2007 Not to point out the obvious, but the 5D shot is pale, lifeless, and drab. Last time I was oustide, flowers and grass don't have a cyan-blue haze over them. To my eye the 5D image has more detail, especially in the highlights, and also greater DR, which allows for more post-manipulation. Five minutes before i start work this morning gave me a very rough approximation of the totally unnatural color that you had in the M8 shot: (don't know if this will work, but i decided to extra-sharpen the shot - to really bring out that over-saturated, over-sharpened web goodness...) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/27987-does-the-m8-lack-colour/?do=findComment&comment=296723'>More sharing options...
frv Posted July 3, 2007 Share #20 Posted July 3, 2007 The Leica and the 5D are both cameras raved about by respectable reviewers who own both. The samples here are reason to worry about the M8. The First M8 sample looks like the worst file to have come out of a below avarage cam of the DPreview site. I think posting samples is great but for reviewing camera quality I am going to pass on the amature samples before I give up on the M8 completely. It does show clearly that comparing sample files or any files really you need to spend an enormeous amount of time. Setting up your equipment and carefully making sure the subject is comparable as far as lighting is concerned. Its really much more of an academic study than anything else. I am very pleased with my subscrition on Sean Reid's site. Not only are his studies very elaborated and balanced but also the photos are inspiring to look at. Most reviewers seem to lack true photographic interest and insult their readers by putting up flat compositions not worth any study in the first place. I rather look at a test board photo than trying to study pixels of teddybear in a bedroom ...lol. Anyhow, I think this thread was started mostly out of enthousiam for the M8, thanks for sharing that spirit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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