M9reno Posted November 28, 2017 Share #1 Posted November 28, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Just sold today on ebay: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rare-Leitz-Leica-Wetzlar-Universal-Turret-Finder-28-35-50-85-135mm-MINT-/122820663010?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=j7P66QYRCC%252FsLEtQBRcfHRjxqMw%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc Is it just a re-badging job? Even if so, the labor must be worth more than the auction price... Confused. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 28, 2017 Posted November 28, 2017 Hi M9reno, Take a look here Rare/prototype Leitz or KMZ turret finder? . I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
willeica Posted November 28, 2017 Share #2 Posted November 28, 2017 Just sold today on ebay: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rare-Leitz-Leica-Wetzlar-Universal-Turret-Finder-28-35-50-85-135mm-MINT-/122820663010?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=j7P66QYRCC%252FsLEtQBRcfHRjxqMw%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc Is it just a re-badging job? Even if so, the labor must be worth more than the auction price... Confused. Looks like a counterfeit of FSU origin. William Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
schattenundlicht Posted November 28, 2017 Share #3 Posted November 28, 2017 It deceptively looks like a repainted KMZ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted November 28, 2017 Share #4 Posted November 28, 2017 An original Leica finder would certainly not have left out 90mm. Since it only has a „telescope“ for 85mm it is certain that it is of Zeiss origin, so probably the KMZ copy. Here is the original copy: https://m.ebay.com/itm/UNIVERSAL-TURRET-FINDER-Viewfinder-RF-28mm-35-50-85-135-Leica-M-Bessa-Zeiss-ZM/272889661968?hash=item3f897dca10%3Ag%3AqXoAAOSw7PZZ3bbr&du=1&action=BESTOFFER Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyoung Posted November 28, 2017 Share #5 Posted November 28, 2017 I noticee that its 'left handed version', I have a rigt handed version labelled Zeiss Jena which has 180mm available (but not 35. Gerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted November 28, 2017 Share #6 Posted November 28, 2017 There were many variants of this universal finder. Most concerned the shortest focal lens: 28 or 25 or 21mm. Since the 6.3/180mm lens by Zeiss had rangefinder coupling it is no surprise that they even offered one which included this lens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M9reno Posted November 28, 2017 Author Share #7 Posted November 28, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Is it difficult to fake the finish and the Leitz logo in this way? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyoung Posted November 28, 2017 Share #8 Posted November 28, 2017 There were many variants of this universal finder. Most concerned the shortest focal lens: 28 or 25 or 21mm. Since the 6.3/180mm lens by Zeiss had rangefinder coupling it is no surprise that they even offered one which included this lens. I have seen a Zeiss version with 21 on it, and was tempted, but the dealer (in London) wanted a premium price for it, so I passed on it. Gerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabears Posted November 28, 2017 Share #9 Posted November 28, 2017 "Play It Again, Sam"... see 332453306259 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted November 28, 2017 Share #10 Posted November 28, 2017 Is it difficult to fake the finish and the Leitz logo in this way? I didn't try - yet; though the experience might be worth a test. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted November 28, 2017 Share #11 Posted November 28, 2017 I have seen a Zeiss version with 21 on it, and was tempted, but the dealer (in London) wanted a premium price for it, so I passed on it. Gerry The version with 21mm isn't rare. All Carl Zeiss Stuttgart examples after the 21mm Biogon was on the market have them. The Zeiss catalogue No. is "Universalsucher 440".The Carl Zeiss Jena version with 25mm is much more frequent than the 25mm lens itself. They look a little bit odd with their different "telescopes" but their quaity is better than the VIOOH from Leica. The focal length is indicated very subtly in the seperate widows and they have marks for parallax control and a focussing device for different distances. If the KMZ copies are more or less the same they would be very recommendable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
schattenundlicht Posted November 28, 2017 Share #12 Posted November 28, 2017 If the Leitz logo is engraved, this KMZ specimen might be worth the price as a sheer oddity, made with dedication Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/279293-rareprototype-leitz-or-kmz-turret-finder/?do=findComment&comment=3405754'>More sharing options...
alan mcfall Posted November 28, 2017 Share #13 Posted November 28, 2017 My version, with chrome dial. Always assumed it was a counterfit copy. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/279293-rareprototype-leitz-or-kmz-turret-finder/?do=findComment&comment=3405807'>More sharing options...
gyoung Posted November 28, 2017 Share #14 Posted November 28, 2017 The version with 21mm isn't rare. All Carl Zeiss Stuttgart examples after the 21mm Biogon was on the market have them. The Zeiss catalogue No. is "Universalsucher 440".The Carl Zeiss Jena version with 25mm is much more frequent than the 25mm lens itself. They look a little bit odd with their different "telescopes" but their quaity is better than the VIOOH from Leica. The focal length is indicated very subtly in the seperate widows and they have marks for parallax control and a focussing device for different distances. If the KMZ copies are more or less the same they would be very recommendable. But surely the version with 21mm on it wasn't the sole one supplied? The other focal lengths are perhaps more frequently used? My one with 180mm on it is a bit annoying as its the 35mm thats left out, which is my most used 'field of view'. I bought it on ebay when I had the Komura 2x converter for Leica, and used it with yhe 90mm Elmarit on the M3. Its also been used on the Nex 6 with 135mm, I like an optical finder with evf cameras! Gerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
schattenundlicht Posted November 28, 2017 Share #15 Posted November 28, 2017 My version, with chrome dial. Always assumed it was a counterfit copy. IMG_0259.JPG Interesting version of the engraving (telltale „A“ and „R“) and tool start/stop marks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted November 28, 2017 Share #16 Posted November 28, 2017 But surely the version with 21mm on it wasn't the sole one supplied? The other focal lengths are perhaps more frequently used? My one with 180mm on it is a bit annoying as its the 35mm thats left out, which is my most used 'field of view'. I bought it on ebay when I had the Komura 2x converter for Leica, and used it with yhe 90mm Elmarit on the M3. Its also been used on the Nex 6 with 135mm, I like an optical finder with evf cameras! Gerry Me too have the Zeiss 440 with 21... but its longest focal is 135... do you mean that your one is 21 50 85 135 180 ? I didn't know of this combination.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted November 28, 2017 Share #17 Posted November 28, 2017 For the pre-war Contax they offered the following combinations of the "Universalsucher": 2.8, 3.5, 5, 8.5, 13.5 cm 2.8, 5, 8.5,13,5,18 cm and 4, 5, 8.5,13.5, 18 cm. All had the catalogue number 436/7. The last one with 4 instead of 3.5 should be very rare since only some hundred Biotar 2/4.25 cm lenses were made. After the war the 2.8 and the 18 cm "telescopes" were left out, since they didn't produce a 28mm lens any longer and the famous "Olympia Sonnar" was only to be used with a huge "Flektoscope" or later "Panflex" mirror reflex accessories and the 180mm Tele-Tessar which originally was rangefinder coupled was abandoned. The later version of the post war 440 was 21, 35, 50, 85, 135 - after they presented the 1:4.5/21 Biogon. Before there was a mixture between east German (marked Carl Zeiss Jena) and west German (marked Zeiss Stuttart) with 25mm instead of 21. This was strange as the 1:4/25mm Topogon was a lens only built in Jena in the east, never officially sold in the west and very rare. Though the finder with "25" is not really rare. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyoung Posted November 29, 2017 Share #18 Posted November 29, 2017 Me too have the Zeiss 440 with 21... but its longest focal is 135... do you mean that your one is 21 50 85 135 180 ? I didn't know of this combination.... No Luigi, I have one marked Carl Zeiss Jena, with 2.8, 5, 8.5, 13.5 and 18 cm. I would have preferred to leave out 2.8 (which i don't use much, or 5 which is on the camera anyway, and have the 3.5 which I use. The other I have is a 'standard' Russian one, with 2.8, 3.5, 5, 8.5 and 13.5. I didn't notice what othe focal lengths the one I saw with 2.1cm had, I rather balked at the price, which was about 5 times what I paid for the others! Sorry if there was confusion! Gerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted November 29, 2017 Share #19 Posted November 29, 2017 ... and I rather balked at the price, which was about 5 times what I paid for the others! The finder Carl Zeiss Stuttgart No. 440 with 21mm already was expensive at it‘s time. It was 245,-DM (approx. 123,-€) in 1956, when a Tessar for the Contax cost 165,-DM and an 1:2 Sonnar 318,- DM. The Leitz VIOOH was 100,-DM. Long ago the most expensive items didn‘t carry a Leica tag... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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