rchrd Posted November 13, 2017 Author Share #41 Â Posted November 13, 2017 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) My earlier response was before you edited your post to add the second question. Â If I could adequately define beauty, the world would beat a path to my door. But I observe, and I believe others have observed the same, that people find things beautiful that have elements of symmetry, simplicity, regularity and clarity - and these can be seen in abstracts as well as concrete objects. Â Having stuck my neck out further than I intended, I shall beat a hasty retreat and let others argue beauty to death. I would much rather express an opinion and let others take it or leave it - I have no wish to persuade everyone that I am right and they are wrong. Â I'm not trying to argue about the essence of beauty. Its why I added the second statement to make sure it didn't seem that way. I just wanted to see what you like and why you like it. Surely you know what you like and why you like it? I'm not going to tear into your judgments and point a finger. I just find it interesting that you compare the Leica I-A to a saucepan haha. Edited November 13, 2017 by rchrd Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 13, 2017 Posted November 13, 2017 Hi rchrd, Take a look here XY/CL design vs TL design. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
LocalHero1953 Posted November 13, 2017 Share #42 Â Posted November 13, 2017 I'm not trying to argue about the essence of beauty. Its why I added the second statement to make sure it didn't seem that way. I just wanted to see what you like and why you like it. Surely you know what you like and why you like it? I'm not going to tear into your judgments and point a finger. I just find it interesting that you compare the Leica I-A to a saucepan haha. Sorry, but beauty is just not a concept that comes to my mind when I look at a camera. I think the Leica i-iii series were designed almost entirely with function in mind. Aesthetic notions were rather more to the fore with the M series, and I suspect it has become a far more important design criterion for Leica in the decades since then. Â Why do I like a camera or not? Almost entirely because of its function which, for me, includes how it handles and how easy it is to use - does it do the job of being a good camera. Some characteristics contribute both to functional and aesthetic qualities: the neat lines of the M series and the TL2 series mean they are less likely to catch on straps and clothing than an SLR, but are also clear and simple. The splatter pattern of buttons on a typical Sony or Olympus etc are both messy to look at and practically confusing. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rchrd Posted November 13, 2017 Author Share #43  Posted November 13, 2017 I'm a bit surprised about your statement. in your first post you refer to the classic of the design (mies van der rohe, bauhaus, rams...) which I really adore too  but....I guess you know,the best of these modern classics were created after the rule....  form follows function  lambda.   I use the word function in pure utilitarian terms. These german designers may not always use it in that way. Dieter Rams in an interview said "Yes, form has to come after function, I can't conceive of it in any other way. There are certainly psychological functions as well, it is a matter of balancing the aesthetic content with regard to use."  One of his principles for good design:  "Good design is aesthetic. The aesthetic quality of the product is integral to its usefulness because products we use every day affect our person and our well-being. But only well-executed products can be beautiful." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rchrd Posted November 13, 2017 Author Share #44 Â Posted November 13, 2017 The splatter pattern of buttons on a typical Sony or Olympus etc are both messy to look at and practically confusing. Â Â We both agree about that!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikej Posted November 13, 2017 Share #45  Posted November 13, 2017 Let’s not forget how ugly the Visoflex is perched on top of the sleek TL/TL2. Cheers, Mike 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
miro Posted November 13, 2017 Share #46 Â Posted November 13, 2017 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VVJ Posted November 13, 2017 Share #47  Posted November 13, 2017 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) Let’s not forget how ugly the Visoflex is perched on top of the sleek TL/TL2. Cheers, Mike  +1. Most of the official pictures of the T/TL2 and lens line-up are without Visoflex, without lens hoods and without lens caps...   A T/TL2 body with lens (without hoods/caps) is indeed very beautiful. Edited November 13, 2017 by JorisV 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rchrd Posted November 14, 2017 Author Share #48  Posted November 14, 2017 (edited) Let’s not forget how ugly the Visoflex is perched on top of the sleek TL/TL2. Cheers, Mike   Can't argue with this. At least it is an accessory and isn't permanently bulging out of the corner of your camera. Both the Leica Q and the Panasonic/leica d-lux avoided the bulge. If we are to believe there is no way to work around the size of the evf, then raise the top just like the M cameras. M cameras are beautiful. Edited November 14, 2017 by rchrd 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
miro Posted November 14, 2017 Share #49  Posted November 14, 2017 (edited) Leica II , first Leica with built in rangefinder    Edited November 14, 2017 by miro 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willeica Posted November 14, 2017 Share #50  Posted November 14, 2017 (edited) The high point of Leica elegance.  Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!  Nothing since then has looked as nice. But then, a modern digital camera is just a tool for the photographer, who will probably have moved on to a new one in 3 or 4 years. What it looks like is less important than what size it is and how it handles.  Will the new Leica CL/XY be admired for its looks 85 years from now?  William Edited November 14, 2017 by willeica Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!  Nothing since then has looked as nice. But then, a modern digital camera is just a tool for the photographer, who will probably have moved on to a new one in 3 or 4 years. What it looks like is less important than what size it is and how it handles.  Will the new Leica CL/XY be admired for its looks 85 years from now?  William ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/278731-xycl-design-vs-tl-design/?do=findComment&comment=3395389'>More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted November 14, 2017 Share #51 Â Posted November 14, 2017 I think it's been discussed many times but looks are important to most Leica customers, and aesthetic qualities shouldn't be lost on image makers! Â The T/TL was a bold design and owners seem to like them a lot. The SL was another unique design albeit with a slightly retro nod to the R3. Â This thing is a bit of a dogs dinner - an X1 with a lump and a TL/SL mount. Hopefully a fake or early design mock up. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 14, 2017 Share #52  Posted November 14, 2017 The high point of Leica elegance.  Black and Nickel Trio (1 of 1).jpg  Nothing since then has looked as nice. But then, a modern digital camera is just a tool for the photographer, who will probably have moved on to a new one in 3 or 4 years. What it looks like is less important than what size it is and how it handles.  Will the new Leica CL/XY be admired for its looks 85 years from now?  William Will it be around 85 years from now? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
miro Posted November 14, 2017 Share #53  Posted November 14, 2017 Leica M3 chrom mit Leica-Meter M, Booster und Objektiv Elmar f=5 cm 1:2,8 M39 mit M-Adapter  4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
miro Posted November 14, 2017 Share #54 Â Posted November 14, 2017 Leica X-U 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
miro Posted November 14, 2017 Share #55 Â Posted November 14, 2017 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 14, 2017 Share #56 Â Posted November 14, 2017 Very nice, all these old Leicas, but it will not change the appreciation - or lack thereof- of the XY. The discussion will become more interesting when we can see the camera in reality - photographs can be misleading. In any case, a design that polarizes the opinions cannot be called bad. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
miro Posted November 14, 2017 Share #57  Posted November 14, 2017 WHY EVERYONE IS INTO UGLY FASHION: AN EXPLAINER  10 Ugly Fashion Trends That We Hope to Never See Again Beauty got so basic that the only place for fashion to go was ugly  22 Expensive Items Of Clothing That Are So Ugly, They'll Give You NightmaresUgly trainers from the 90s are back in fashion and there are some outrageous pairs on the market… so would YOU wear them?   Next in Men’s Fashion: Ugly Is Beautiful Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willeica Posted November 14, 2017 Share #58 Â Posted November 14, 2017 Will it be around 85 years from now? Â Probably not, but my black and nickel trio will be celebrating their 170th birthday around that time. I won't be around for the occasion, of course. Â William Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rchrd Posted November 15, 2017 Author Share #59 Â Posted November 15, 2017 It could be around in 85 years. Â "I like the way old digital camera grain looks..." -Hipster, 2102 C.E. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rchrd Posted November 15, 2017 Author Share #60 Â Posted November 15, 2017 and aesthetic qualities shouldn't be lost on image makers! Â Â Â Exactly! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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