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XY/CL design vs TL design

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Autofocus makes things bigger, much bigger. 

 

The real strength of the M system is the small manual focus lenses. That makes the system small. Super small.

 

Not only small manual lenses, but really excellent glass and well made. I treat them like little jewels. Is the only reason I still shoot with an M, really. The day they come out with a smaller full frame by Leica that can take these lenses, I will be a buyer. The SL didn’t do it for me. Give me a new manual design that takes less space, lighter, but better design than the M.

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I'm assuming the photographs are of the real thing.  There have been statements that the viewfinder is derived from the SL and that it is derived from the Visoflex 020.  The 020 has an eyepiece 3 cm in diameter.  The SL eyepiece is 4 cm in diameter.  Both are 3 cm in length.  They eyepiece on the new camera is 3 cm in diameter, making its identification as an 020 plausible, if disappointing.

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Scott, well argued but I wouldn't go by the diameter of the eyepiece. The EVF on the new camera doesn't look anything like the Visoflex 020. And this is the actual camera.

 

Clooney

 

Visoflex 020

 

SL

 

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Actually, doesn’t have to look like the 020 exactly to have the same internals. Who knows really. Wait a few days and we should all know.

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Scott, well argued but I wouldn't go by the diameter of the eyepiece. The EVF on the new camera doesn't look anything like the Visoflex 020. And this is the actual camera.

 

 

The blowups are helpful.  The 020 has an opening (the first piece of glass) that is 1 cm high.  The SL viewfinder glass is 13mm high.  The picture of the CL shows an opening that looks like 15 mm!  Now I'm hopeful.

 

scott

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The blowups are helpful.  The 020 has an opening (the first piece of glass) that is 1 cm high.  The SL viewfinder glass is 13mm high.  The picture of the CL shows an opening that looks like 15 mm!  Now I'm hopeful.

 

scott

Except that the scale rules in the background of the image are in the plane of the front of the camera (as it's resting on a surface) and not the plane of the eyepiece.....and the image is not centred on that part of the camera either. Establishing the size of the viewfinder from the image provided needs either a fair bit of maths or a lot of guesswork......(and a bit of hope maybe!)

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It looks to me as if the picture was taken from 35-70 cm above the ruler and the graph paper.  That expands things by 5 to 10%, so the apparent size of 15 mm might actually be 13 or 14 mm.  I think Chaemono is right, that this is not an 020 viewfinder but something more substantial.

Edited by scott kirkpatrick

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My Fuji X-E2 has AF but is significantly smaller than my M cameras. Only excuse for the size of the X-pro2 is its hybrid viewfinder. The XY/CL would not have that excuse if it is not significantly smaller unless it has a bigger EVF than those of its APS-C competitors.

 

 

 

The format also has an influence on the total size of a system (camera and lenses).

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Visoflex I on Leica IIf

 

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Leica XY/CL ? with ?EVF 

 

Fuji X-E 3 with EVF

Edited by miro

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The format also has an influence on the total size of a system (camera and lenses).

 

Reason why i see only one reason for XY/CL to be bulkier and even uglier than Fuji X-E2/X-E3 cameras, the extra size of its EVF. Besides Leica's irrepressible desire for big ugly things like SL cameras i mean

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Leica CL mirrorless camera and Elmarit-TL 18mm f/2.8 ASPH lens to be announced on November 21st

Read more: https://leicarumors.com/2017/11/19/leica-cl-mirrorless-camera-and-elmarit-tl-18mm-f2-8-asph-lens-to-be-announced-on-november-21st.aspx/#ixzz4yrWqrrEP

 

 

On November 21st Leica will announce the long-rumored CL mirrorless camera and a new Elmarit-TL 18mm f/2.8 ASPH lens (both pictured above). Here is an updated list of specifications and the expected European pricing:

  • Code name "Clooney" (model 7323), the actual name will "Leica CL"
  • Made in Germany
  • Same 24MP ASP-C sensor from the TL2
  • Interchangeable lens camera with TL-mount
  • Built-in EVF: better than the M external EVF (1.4MP) and the Typ 020 (2.4MP) but not the same as the one in the Leica SL (4.4MP)
  • Official announcement in Japan will be on November 22nd
  • 1/8000 mechanical shutter
  • No GPS
  • No IBIS
  • No PDAF
  • European pricing:
    • Leica CL: €2,490 (around $3,000)
    • Leica Elmarit-TL 18mm f/2.8 ASPH lens: €1,190 (around $1,400)
    • Leica CL + 18mm f/2.8 lens combo: €3,490 (around $4,100)


Read more: https://leicarumors.com/2017/11/19/leica-cl-mirrorless-camera-and-elmarit-tl-18mm-f2-8-asph-lens-to-be-announced-on-november-21st.aspx/#ixzz4yrX07zPg

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Its not just about batteries. Electronic goods are inherently designed to have a short life span or to be replaced. When has anyone here last had an electric kettle repaired? Who here still uses a 40 year old television? How many of us are still using a 15 year old mobile phone ( I am sure some will put their hands up)? It is not just electronic goods as, apart from those that are collectors or vintage items, most of us do not drive cars that are more than 25 years old. Car manufacturers keep producing 'new and improved' models and it is the same with cameras. This forum would probably have to close down or survive in a much smaller format if there was not an endless supply of new digital cameras from Leica AG to discuss. Now to contradict all of that somewhat, some of the earliest digital cameras are starting to become collector (apart from user) items. Most of the millions of digital cameras made up to this will not survive, however, as there will always be something new to replace them.

 

One of the great features of the original Leica camera, as designed by Barnack, is that it was made in a way that it could easily be repaired. The Contax, for example, was probably a more advanced design, but if it broke down it was very difficult to repair. One issue that will arise for older Leicas will, of course, be the fact that repair persons will be getting older and most will not be replaced. The same applies to other classic cameras such as Rolleis. 

 

Predicting the future is always dangerous, but it is much easier to predict a future for items that have already survived for a long time than it is for those which are brand new.

 

The new CL, to be launched next week, should be viewed as just the latest electronic wonder camera which will be replaced within a few years. Any other approach would be illogical in the light of what we know about electronic goods.

 

William

Agreed, William. Digilux 2 is a good example. Widely loved glass and image quality for its day, and now generally unrepairable. Whether caused by planned obsolecence or a lack of supply chain interest in making and storing parts for more than a few old models, digital goods are essentially disposable. I commend Leica for maintaining the M film camera line (design and parts) even as they must play in the digital market to survive as a company. All this would seem to make a good argument for separate lenses so that only the digital camera bodies become obsolete.

Cheers,

Mike

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Reason why i see only one reason for XY/CL to be bulkier and even uglier than Fuji X-E2/X-E3 cameras, the extra size of its EVF. Besides Leica's irrepressible desire for big ugly things like SL cameras i mean

 

 

CL is smaller than the XE3...

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