M4 service needed?

[PaulJohn]

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I recently bought a film MP. The film advance lever is noticeably smoother than my M4. As the M4 is nearly 50 years old perhaps I should not be surprised. I would not have noticed if I hadn't bought the MP and compared the two.

 

The M4 hasn't been CLA'd for 10 yrs. Will a CLA / service make the film advance as smooth as my MP?

[plaidshirts]

Will a CLA / service make the film advance as smooth as my MP?

A CLA will definitely make your advance smoother on your M4 but there is no way to determine if it will be as smooth as your MP.

[chilihead]

My M4 was serviced by Sherry Krauter and it is now so nice I use it way more than my MP. It's perfect!

[earleygallery]

A CLA will definitely make your advance smoother on your M4 but there is no way to determine if it will be as smooth as your MP.

 

Definitely? Will you guarantee that? 

[Ko.Fe.]

It could be something worn out. I have to bring my M4-2 for service and some part has to be changed in film advancing mechanism. It became smooth again.

[pico]

Definitely? Will you guarantee that? 

 

I would not.

[plaidshirts]

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Just speaking from my experience, film advance levers ALWAYS became smoother after a CLA. That's all.

[michaelwj]

I recently bought a film MP. The film advance lever is noticeably smoother than my M4. As the M4 is nearly 50 years old perhaps I should not be surprised. I would not have noticed if I hadn't bought the MP and compared the two.

 

The M4 hasn't been CLA'd for 10 yrs. Will a CLA / service make the film advance as smooth as my MP?

Maybe maybe not. I wouldn't.

[250swb]

Just speaking from my experience, film advance levers ALWAYS became smoother after a CLA. That's all.

 

'Always'! A good M can go ten to twenty years without a CLA, which in my lifetime of using M's means I should have had maybe three or four serviced as an average, and which is about right. Some were new, some second-hand, but I wouldn't say 'always' in a sample of four.

 

Of course we know from the forum that a CLA is often performed with the frequency of a haircut, it's a badge of honour being able to mention Sherry and co, and very often the camera will come back better than it came out the factory. But I don't think there are any guarantee's especially as some cameras respond better than others. The very smoothest Leica I have is an M4-P, better than my unadulterated factory built MP, and it shouldn't be so, there's nothing sexy inside, it's all hard wearing industrial steel gears. Even my M2 falls by the wayside in comparison, and only a Taylor serviced IIIf comes close.

[Ko.Fe.]

'Always'! A good M can go ten to twenty years without a CLA, which in my lifetime of using M's means I should have had maybe three or four serviced as an average, and which is about right. Some were new, some second-hand, but I wouldn't say 'always' in a sample of four.

 

Of course we know from the forum that a CLA is often performed with the frequency of a haircut, it's a badge of honour being able to mention Sherry and co, and very often the camera will come back better than it came out the factory. But I don't think there are any guarantee's especially as some cameras respond better than others. The very smoothest Leica I have is an M4-P, better than my unadulterated factory built MP, and it shouldn't be so, there's nothing sexy inside, it's all hard wearing industrial steel gears. Even my M2 falls by the wayside in comparison, and only a Taylor serviced IIIf comes close.

 

 

Leica film M camera is precise mechanical tool which relies on lubrication. And it isn't Nikon with self-lubricating parts. As any mechanical tool with modern lubrication (stable and stays where it was applied) it will survive rare or next to no use for ten years at easy. Twenty years of no use, next to shelf queen it will works, still.  

So, if you use film M few times per month, it will make it for ten years within cozy environment. 

 

Winogrand's Leica cameras didn't lasts for long. He has to bring then for service periodically. And buy less used ones, every time repair was getting not financially viable.

If you are one of the few remaining film M users who use it as main image taker and takes it everywhere to use it daily, it is known to last shorter without CLA. My M4-2 was this way from 2014 to 2016, in -28C to +40C days. As result it went to CLA in late 2016. And I was happy to still have it serviced locally. But not for long anymore. It is blessing to have at least someone like Sherry and co, for us, Leica film M regular use users... 

 

 

Steel parts in M4-2, M4-P is large internet overstatement, BWT, by folks who never seen what is actually inside.

Here is the moment of truth for the steel parts:

https://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2593002&postcount=48

M4 is dry, M4-2 is with grease, BTW.

[plaidshirts]

It seems opinions based on ones own experience are valued less than the generalizations of a few omniscient members. I guess if you say it enough times it has to be true. I will say no more.