jaapv Posted August 27, 2017 Share #61 Posted August 27, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Of course it is, otherwise a grey card WB wouldn't help. It is all sides of the same coin, i.e. colour data handling in raw development. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 27, 2017 Posted August 27, 2017 Hi jaapv, Take a look here Is this normal? (M10 all is yellow). I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
lct Posted August 27, 2017 Share #62 Posted August 27, 2017 Not sure to understand what you mean. Auto WB doesn't work when using a grey card does it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
win-win Posted August 27, 2017 Author Share #63 Posted August 27, 2017 So no WB issue right? If we are talking on DNG (nor RAW inside dng) there are a lot of issues with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted August 27, 2017 Share #64 Posted August 27, 2017 Too bad i wanted to compliment the M10 for once... When watching the results out of Apple Preview, Silkypix, RawTherapee and RPP my feeling was the auto WB of the M10 is superior to that of the M240, almost as good as that of my Canon and Sony bodies. But if you mean that Leica is the culprit for the ugly LR result you've been showing above i'm ready to make my best efforts to try to understand what you mean but to no avail so far i must say . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
win-win Posted August 27, 2017 Author Share #65 Posted August 27, 2017 Too bad i wanted to compliment the M10 for once... When watching the results out of Apple Preview, Silkypix, RawTherapee and RPP my feeling was the auto WB of the M10 is superior to that of the M240, almost as good as that of my Canon and Sony bodies. But if you mean that Leica is the culprit for the ugly LR result you've been showing above i'm ready to make my best efforts to try to understand what you mean but to no avail so far i must say . In my view DNG file from any camera should make post processing in LR easier not worse. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 27, 2017 Share #66 Posted August 27, 2017 Not sure to understand what you mean. Auto WB doesn't work when using a grey card does it? Auto white balance (or rather camera WB) is largely an irrelevancy. The raw converter sets the final white balance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 27, 2017 Share #67 Posted August 27, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) In my view DNG file from any camera should make post processing in LR easier not worse. It is the way you set up your raw processor. The DNG is just a container for data. The photographer is in control, not the camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted August 27, 2017 Share #68 Posted August 27, 2017 In my view DNG file from any camera should make post processing in LR easier not worse. Sure it should but whom is/are the culprits? Reminds me of the skintone issues of the M240 in 2013. There were two culprits then the reddish cast of the Leica firmware and LR who was unable to cope with it contrary to C1. Now i see an LR problem again but i fail to understand in what Leica would be another culprit. Now i'm no techie at all, just trying to understand. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 27, 2017 Share #69 Posted August 27, 2017 Agree. the profile in Lightroom must be adapted, which is a user setting anyway - although there are a couple of precooked ones which the user may like - or not, as in this case. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
win-win Posted August 27, 2017 Author Share #70 Posted August 27, 2017 Sure it should but whom is/are the culprits? Reminds me of the skintone issues of the M240 in 2013. There were two culprits then the reddish cast of the Leica firmware and LR who was unable to cope with it contrary to C1. Now i see an LR problem again but i fail to understand in what Leica would be another culprit. Now i'm no techie at all, just trying to understand. None of culprits, we all people make mistakes, as Steve Jobs said. BTW it will be good to compare my M10 with another. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 27, 2017 Share #71 Posted August 27, 2017 Whatever else, my M240 does exactly the same. My GX8 not - it produces an orange cast. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted August 27, 2017 Share #72 Posted August 27, 2017 Whatever else, my M240 does exactly the same [...] Not mine but i don't use LR. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted August 27, 2017 Share #73 Posted August 27, 2017 Automatic anything hardly works optimally . Make a preset with a grey card for your conditions. Fluorescent lights are terrible as they are missing certain parts of spectrum. LCD bulbs are ??? If the pic looks good on back of camera, there is a LR problem. If you can not find it, reset to factory defaults. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted August 27, 2017 Share #74 Posted August 27, 2017 I don't see this as a WB problem, or only peripherally. The yellow is effectively removed solely by using the Adobe Standard profile, and making no adjustments to WB - leaving it as shot. I see this as a problem with the embedded profile, which has simply got one part of its lookup table wrong - the bit that translates the colour in the raw file corresponding to what comes out of the low energy lamp. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 27, 2017 Share #75 Posted August 27, 2017 Not mine but i don't use LR. Nor do I usually. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted August 28, 2017 Share #76 Posted August 28, 2017 It is pretty standard that non-sunlight lighting requires a different profile (usually custom) than sunlight. Some canned profiles (e.g. Adobe) are often compromises so as to look pretty good under both daylight and tungsten, but not perfect under either. My own profiles for daylight never work well under tungsten/yellow light - once I remove the yellow with WB, the reds (including skin) are too magenta. So I build a separate "tungsten profile" for use in that light, with the red hue shifted yellow to get things back in balance. Same with the "M10 embedded" profile - my preference for daylight over Adobe's - but needs adjustment for indoor lighting. (I'm a firm non-believer in "one size fits all.") The low-energy bulbs have an even worse spectrum than tungsten, but I have not had to deal with that lighting yet (just sodium vapor or similar industrial lights). With the image in question, I used the M10 Embedded profile, but with blue/yellow saturation slider lowered a lot. Looks about like what everyone ese has managed to achieve (well-balanced non-yellow skin and grays). One other point, having nothing to do with profiles or white balance per se - that yellow/tan wooden cabinet is reflecting even more yellow light into the shadows of the young lady's face. Always important to watch out for color surfaces reflecting fill light onto skin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
win-win Posted August 28, 2017 Author Share #77 Posted August 28, 2017 It is pretty standard that non-sunlight lighting requires a different profile (usually custom) than sunlight. Some canned profiles (e.g. Adobe) are often compromises so as to look pretty good under both daylight and tungsten, but not perfect under either. My own profiles for daylight never work well under tungsten/yellow light - once I remove the yellow with WB, the reds (including skin) are too magenta. So I build a separate "tungsten profile" for use in that light, with the red hue shifted yellow to get things back in balance. Same with the "M10 embedded" profile - my preference for daylight over Adobe's - but needs adjustment for indoor lighting. (I'm a firm non-believer in "one size fits all.") The low-energy bulbs have an even worse spectrum than tungsten, but I have not had to deal with that lighting yet (just sodium vapor or similar industrial lights). With the image in question, I used the M10 Embedded profile, but with blue/yellow saturation slider lowered a lot. Looks about like what everyone ese has managed to achieve (well-balanced non-yellow skin and grays). One other point, having nothing to do with profiles or white balance per se - that yellow/tan wooden cabinet is reflecting even more yellow light into the shadows of the young lady's face. Always important to watch out for color surfaces reflecting fill light onto skin. Thank you very much, your post has put everything in its place. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollin Posted August 30, 2017 Share #78 Posted August 30, 2017 Unless specifically calibrated for white balance, grey cards are not a good choice as generally too blue - they are for exposure. I bought a WhiBal reference card and use it daily - just place it in the scene and click the LR WB dropper on it. I tested it against the back of a white business card, and the business card was definitely close enough, so would suggest that for setting custom WB in the camera, and a slightly larger card for use during processing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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