M10 Frameline Brightness - Firmware

[mort linder]

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it seems counter intuitive to me for the frame lines to become dimmer in low light and brighter in bright light . 

could someone explain this ?

[PCPix]

6 hours ago, mort linder said:

it seems counter intuitive to me for the frame lines to become dimmer in low light and brighter in bright light . 

could someone explain this ?

If they were full brightness in a dark place, you'd probably be dazzled and unable to see the scene very well - I think the brightness should go up and down to match the available light. The old M's used the available light to illuminate the framelines so they naturally went brighter in bright light and dimmer in dim light.

I think the original post might have some sort of problem with either the cicuitry or abmient light sensor as my M10s and later M10Rs have never made me think (or want) to change the intensity of the framelines in any circumstance.

[Alberti]

Mort, The way I see it:

1) when it gets dark the native RF patch gets dim (not much light entering the viewfinder).

At that moment the LED should be dimmed so far that the two equal out. But if it stays bright, or does not dim down enough, then the ('fixed') LED frameline and the LED-lighted patch outshine the one that is from the RF mechanism. That means: I cn't see the moving one very well (that's the one in the very tiny window in the middle of the camera). Dazzled. yes thats a good word. Dazed sort of is too much. 

2) when it gets very light the opposite can happen. 

So it comes down to the question: is the electronics too lazy (it should dim) ?

If I could set that responsiveness, fine. Well not fine really, it would be better if standardized to a good reference, to always match. 

Once you start to notice, it becomes very bothersome, such a bright line in the viewfinder, in dark surroundings. I know, there is some psycho. in all this. .  😞

- PCPix - that is how I like to see it. 

- I first thought my eyesight was failing. (I can still see >visus 120) 

Edited October 8, 2024 by Alberti

[Alberti]

I have checked this up.

I noted the frame lines react normal.

What went wrong was that my camera and myself were in spotlights while the subject was in the shadows - then it is 'normal' for the camera to brighten the lines. 

[UliWer]

Your are right.

Though your experience demonstrates that there should be an option to switch off the automatic brightening/dimming of the frame lines.

[newtoleica]

I've noticed this as well in difficult artificial lighting. if the camera has spot of light falling on it the frame lines tighten up too much. A quirk.... 

[PCPix]

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9 hours ago, newtoleica said:

if the camera has spot of light falling on it

Just the same as for older M bodies. Looks like they carried the ‘quirk’ through from the available light illuminated framelines to the newer led illuminated framelines 😎

[mujk]

There are several lighting situations where the difference in frameline brightness between available light an led illumination is quite big. I immediately noticed this when moving from the M9 to the M10 back in 2018. In fact, there seem to be more situations where I have a problem seeing the framelines (and led display) with the M10 than with the M9. Leica should have made an option to set led brightness, or maybe even the brightness curve "steepness", in the menu. But it is possible that the hardware design doesn't support this.

[Alberti]

1 minute ago, mujk said:

Leica should have made an option to set led brightness, or maybe even the brightness curve "steepness", in the menu.

Now that is a nice idea.

Yes I still hold on to the M9M, and that is much nicer sort of in use. I had less problems with the M240P; probably that had another 'curve'.

[Alberti]

The 'anxiousness' of the "algorithm" (that word is a misnomer, of course) could be different. There are electronic amplifier circuits that follow an S-curve, such that there is a maximum where it starts to level off. It is called a logarithmic curve. Very handsome and easy to implement in silicon (it was already done in the fifties). Probably such an S would mimic/fit our natural eyesight better.

'Steepness' implies a forever ongoing curve untill the LED runs out of gas. 🥵

[hjddd]

our neighbor M11 just have new firmware ， M10 plesae update ， too