Correct Focus Ring stiffness?

[busyx2]

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Hi,

I have different Leica lenses and they all have different focus ring resistance (stiffness?).

 

If I take the modern 2000+ lens as a reference:  Elmarit 28mm, and Summilux 50mm ASPH, these 2 lens have about the same resistances and for the purpose of this post, I will use them as the 'average',

 

I found that a Summilux 35mm V2 (1970) is 'looser' 

Summaron 35mm (1966) is 'stiffer' (this resistance is very similar to couple of classic lens with similar vintage, such as an Voigtlander Prominent Nokton 50mm, a Nippon Kogaku LTM 50mm F2.0)

and I just recently received a 90mm Tele-Elmarit 'fat' V1 (1963), which is even stiffer.

 

I wonder if this is due to different lens vintage, or the 'stiffness' should be CLA'd ?

 

 

Thank you,

Edited June 22, 2017 by busyx2

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[michaelwj]

Yes.

It could be lens vintage and it could be in need of a CLA, it could be the type of grease am deathly its condition, or if the focus ring is moving a small weight or a floating element group as well. The diameter of the focus ring will also influence the feel as you're turning with a bigger lever.

I have a summilux v2 and it is looser than current lenses, but not loose i.e., it doesn't move by itself and it stays put. I'd get the summaron cleaned and checked if it bothers you that it's stiffer. It could have old dirty grease or suffered a knock making it stiff.

[willeica]

I have a large number of Leica lenses ranging in age from 1926 up to the present. There is no consistent feel of tightness or looseness in any of them. For example, current model 50 Summilux Asph is tighter than many of the lenses I have from the 1920s and 1930s. That being said some of my older lenses are also tight. Where I can I have taken them apart and have used WD 40 or silicon oil (avoiding lens elements) on them and this usually works. I believe I have read somewhere that grease of some kind is preferable to oil, but so far I have not had any problems.

 

The real issue is whether any tightness or looseness is interfering with your ability to fully utilise a lens. Only in such a case would I consider a CLA to be necessary.

 

William

[lct]

Your stiff lenses should be fixed indeed.

To compare your apples to my oranges :

- My Elmarit 28/2.8 asph, Summaron 35/2.8 and Tele-Elmarit "thin" 90/2.8 have always been smooth;

- My Summilux 50/1.4 asph was stiff and is now butter smooth after a Leica overhaul. 

 

 

[Gregm61]

There's definitely no "reference" in stiffness that'll tell you anything as that's across the board, even with just newer lenses. The 21mm Super Elmar I just received is a little "thick" feeling out of the box but will almost certainly loosen with time and use. I hear lenses with the floating elements can have more resistance in "feel" but the 75mm f2 APO I have is the lightest feeling of the three I currently use the most, being it, a 35mm f2 ASPH and of course the new 21.

 

If the lens felt too dry and stiff to me, or had points in the travel where it felt like it was binding, that would be a lens I would send in for a service.

[mirekti]

Same here. In my case 135mm APO is very stiff and I don't like it so much, however, I think it would be really hard to use it in case the focus ring was easier to move.

[jaapv]

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When the lenses are made, the selection of the focusing parts is done by hand, as is the judging of the feel. So there can be a bit of variation between lenses.

[lct]

Same here. In my case 135mm APO is very stiff and I don't like it so much, however, I think it would be really hard to use it in case the focus ring was easier to move.

 

This superb lens has no reason no be stiff IMHO. Mine is butter smooth from day one and is easy to use actually. It sits more often on my Sony A7s mod though which could explain my feeling.

[jaapv]

Mine is smooth as well.

[mirekti]

Mine is butter smooth from day one and is easy to use actually.

 

Hm... I don't know, it's not I can hardly move the focus, it is smooth, but there is some resistance to it and it takes forever. Much more than 75mm APO which has very short path and is looser/easier to rotate.

Edited June 22, 2017 by mirekti

[lct]

Funny that you say this as my 75/2 has some resistance as if it had no grease enough. I should have it fixed i guess. As for your 135/3.4 it is normal that its focus throw is longer than that of your 75/2. Resistance is another story.  

[Finn Trosby]

I have a Elmarit 28 mm/2.8 ASPH which I purchased for my M8 a couple of years after that camera was released on the market. Focusing was extremely smooth and nice during the first years, but now when focusing by my forefinger to the focusing ring handle (when holding the camera to my eye), it isn't smooth any longer. I have to use both my forefinger and my thumb on each side of the handle to be able to focus swift and correctly. Is sending the lens to a Leica workshop for lubricating normal procedure for a lens which isn't older than that?

(I have to admit that the lens haven't been used much during the last 3-4 years).

[jaapv]

Yes, the threads can get gummed up by dust and the grease can stiffen up through lack of use. 

[elmars]

Leica has instruments to measure the stiffness and they have a range of stiffness - so a Leica technician told me. Within this range "all is allowed". My lenses have/had different stiffness. I sent some of them to Leica to alter the stiffness to my taste.

[darkinners]

seems every batch have different stiffness. 

I have a silver 35lux fle made from 2018, the focus ring stiffness is just right, not loose not tight and I bought another new 35lux fle in black, made in 2019. The focus ring is much stiffer, it's still very smooth and no dead zone but noticeably harder to turn when compare to my 2018 silver one.

[Alberti]

I have several varieties of focal stiffness. My 50mm Summicron  version-V is my favourate lens, and this is very velvety (butterly smooth??) - I can turn it very quickly a few degrees to the left or right, the RF blob reacts immediately and I can thus focus to the mm (needed and possible with this lens). No hysteresis. The ergonomics (haptics)  matches perfectly with the quality of the optics (the best you can find). My Macro Elmar is in the same class. Also my M-Rokkors are very smooth, even the 28mm with its double helix (yes, I think it is due to the Leica DNA 😉).  - I understand that the modern helicoids are often vacuum coated with special grease, to make tight tolerances and smooth operation. 

My old 35mm Summicron  v-I that has been cleaned and serviced in Solms is stiffer, but has a consistent feel. For this focal distance it is OK. It fits that character.

I was looking at a 50-lux v-II the other day, it was stiffer like the 35 I have. For such a lens, the stiffness should be less to my liking, just on the edge. The 50-Lux asph with its FLE  I held last week  was even a lot stiffer, not to my liking at all, I would blame the quality of the lens and not my focussing, but of course this is one of the best lenses. 

Other lenses, other brands like Canon and all Russians are stiff which is annoying (slow movement that cannot follow the scene). You know, fifty years ago in the era of film and patience  this was normal.

- `Many 90mm lenses have a very long helicoid, and will never get loose (old style lenses, from film time). I sold my otherwise good 90mm Elmarit for this reason. CLA will never solve a problem of old helicoids that depend on the grease to center the two parts. 

[rnl]

my 16-18-21 WATE is rather stiff and it was recently at Leica for an overhaul

[SocialKonstruct]

Definitely 28mm Elmarit-M (current version) is tighter than the used Summarit=M F2.4 (current but discontinued recently). However the lenses work well despite the difference in smoothness. Much of this will depend on the lens design.

If too tight/stiff then that would be an issue. Loose focusing I don't mind as long as the lens works.

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[Ko.Fe.]

Does OP looking for ISO2000 standard on this? Here is none. It is way too personal. Some likes to wrestle CV VM 50 1.5, 35 1.7 faster you rotate, stiffer it gets focus rings. Some are spitting at new Leica lenses buttery smooth focus rings. 

Personally, I like non resistant, smooth focus rings, tabs feel. I'm the one of the few who knows how to focus fast by focus tab position without even looking at the lens. While many likes to take their time and focus on static object with stiff and long focus  .    

[paulsydaus]

I prefer the feel to be looser than what most lenses are delivered as.  It should be as loose as possible without moving on its own.  My experience is these days most lenses tend to ship a bit too stiff.