35mm Summicron v1 vs. 35mm Summilux Pre-Asph

[insideline]

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Erik,

By '91 these are the last of the coating upgrades for the V2 pre-asph 35 1.4 Summilux's, for the most part they are quite robust but I have seen two late German copies with distinct cleaning marks, yet my two copies both of which I am the original owner are still like new and both have been in many dirty environments. I hope it arrives in great shape and you enjoy many years with it as in my home this lens is a forever keeper. I have a 1961 Steel Rim, 1981 Canada V2 and late German titanium copy and while they render differently wide open all of them are fabulous lenses. 

[egrossman]

I have been scarred so badly by the cleaning damage I did to the rather modern 50 APO that I now put UV filters on all my lenses. Problem solved!

Enjoy both of your early Summiluxes. I fear at current prices, the opportunity to buy a steel rim has passed me by.

Erik

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[grahamc]

Hello

Thought I'd chime in here as recently bought an 8 element.  

One thing that I don't think has been mentioned (sorry if it has) is the 8e uses full stops in the aperture ring.

The 8e is a stunning lens in terms of build quality and I love the colours (reminds me of 35:2 v4 actually, really beautiful) .

Given the extra stop for use on film, and the half-stop clicks , I think I would still lean toward the Summilux as an all-rounder if I had to pick . 

[shirubadanieru]

On 8/4/2022 at 1:51 PM, grahamc said:

Hello

Thought I'd chime in here as recently bought an 8 element.  

One thing that I don't think has been mentioned (sorry if it has) is the 8e uses full stops in the aperture ring.

The 8e is a stunning lens in terms of build quality and I love the colours (reminds me of 35:2 v4 actually, really beautiful) .

Given the extra stop for use on film, and the half-stop clicks , I think I would still lean toward the Summilux as an all-rounder if I had to pick . 

The full aperture stops is actually the reason I prefer it (usability-wise) to the summilux or any Leica lens from the 1960s onwards. Rendering wise I love both! That and the fact of 0.7m focus make it easier to use for me, simply because I calculate exposure using Sunny 16 and usually always think in full stops (i.e Portra 400 rated at 200, 1/1000, F8 when it's sunny, F2 in shade, F4 in contrasty areas). Built quality wise, to me there's no meaningful difference between them, or the lux might feel more solid? Simply because the 8e is not made of brass and feels lighter than it should VS a brass lens (such as the summaron 35mm f3.5 for example or the Steel-rim). Regardless, all Leica lens feel very solid and the 8e is one of the most beautifully designed. 

 

Edited August 5, 2022 by shirubadanieru

[grahamc]

On 8/5/2022 at 3:59 PM, shirubadanieru said:

The full aperture stops is actually the reason I prefer it (usability-wise) to the summilux or any Leica lens from the 1960s onwards. Rendering wise I love both! That and the fact of 0.7m focus make it easier to use for me, simply because I calculate exposure using Sunny 16 and usually always think in full stops (i.e Portra 400 rated at 200, 1/1000, F8 when it's sunny, F2 in shade, F4 in contrasty areas). Built quality wise, to me there's no meaningful difference between them, or the lux might feel more solid? Simply because the 8e is not made of brass and feels lighter than it should VS a brass lens (such as the summaron 35mm f3.5 for example or the Steel-rim). Regardless, all Leica lens feel very solid and the 8e is one of the most beautifully designed. 

 

Thanks

I actually assumed the 8e was made of brass just based on appearance and chunkiness.  Of course it is very light and just weighed mine .. 180g ! Incredible . 

The 0.7m focus is very attractive as the 1m MFD of the 35:1.4 v2 does trip me up at times (although fairly sure mine focuses to something around 0.850.

I just travelled with both and the extra stop of the Summilux was used a lot in low light as I shot mostly on film.  As were the half aperture clicks, possibly because I rate my film at 1/3 stops (B&W) or 2/3 stops (Colour) below box speed, maybe that's why I find myself often falling in-between full apertures when metering.   Anyway, that's not really a big deal.

Really nice choices to have

[shirubadanieru]

3 hours ago, grahamc said:

Thanks

I actually assumed the 8e was made of brass just based on appearance and chunkiness.  Of course it is very light and just weighed mine .. 180g ! Incredible . 

The 0.7m focus is very attractive as the 1m MFD of the 35:1.4 v2 does trip me up at times (although fairly sure mine focuses to something around 0.850.

I just travelled with both and the extra stop of the Summilux was used a lot in low light as I shot mostly on film.  As were the half aperture clicks, possibly because I rate my film at 1/3 stops (B&W) or 2/3 stops (Colour) below box speed, maybe that's why I find myself often falling in-between full apertures when metering.   Anyway, that's not really a big deal.

Really nice choices to have

oh nice is your 8e the later serial? I have seen some weight variation, anywhere from 165g〜180g, not sure why. I think the material used is aluminum? Both the 8e and Summaron 35 2.8 use it (and about half of the rigid cron 50mm v2 body, that's why the rigid v1 is heavier). 

That's why they're lighter, for reference if the 8e was all brass it would be around 230〜250g, same weight as the LLC 8e remake which is all brass.

[Erato]

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51 minutes ago, shirubadanieru said:

oh nice is your 8e the later serial? I have seen some weight variation, anywhere from 165g〜180g, not sure why. I think the material used is aluminum? Both the 8e and Summaron 35 2.8 use it (and about half of the rigid cron 50mm v2 body, that's why the rigid v1 is heavier). 

That's why they're lighter, for reference if the 8e was all brass it would be around 230〜250g, same weight as the LLC 8e remake which is all brass.

I've just weight my 8-Elements:

• Net weight 178 g without filter, rear/front cap and hood.
• It's about 228.5 g while plastic rear cap, Leica E39 filter and hood attached(without front cap).

On the sidetones, Leica Wiki description relevnace:

• Materials - Chrome plated brass
• Dimensions (length x diameter) - 28.4 x 51 mm /1.12 x 2 in
• Weight - 150 g / 5.29 oz

Edited August 6, 2022 by Erato
add filter relevance

[grahamc]

1 hour ago, shirubadanieru said:

oh nice is your 8e the later serial? I have seen some weight variation, anywhere from 165g〜180g, not sure why. I think the material used is aluminum? Both the 8e and Summaron 35 2.8 use it (and about half of the rigid cron 50mm v2 body, that's why the rigid v1 is heavier). 

That's why they're lighter, for reference if the 8e was all brass it would be around 230〜250g, same weight as the LLC 8e remake which is all brass.

Yes it’s from 1968. Interesting information thanks !

[grahamc]

45 minutes ago, Erato said:

I've just weight my 8-Elements:

• Net weight 178 g without filter, rear/front cap and hood.
• It's about 228.5 g while plastic rear cap, Leica E39 filter and hood attached(without front cap).

On the sidetones, Leica Wiki description relevnace:

• Materials - Chrome plated brass
• Dimensions (length x diameter) - 28.4 x 51 mm /1.12 x 2 in
• Weight - 150 g / 5.29 oz

Interesting thanks.
 

Seems unlikely to be brass then as stated in the wiki considering this weight is similar to 35:2v4 standard black aluminium version (around 190g IIRC).  Edit: Or is it , as other articles online also state “chromed brass”.   If brass is used then surely must be in a different manner to the milled brass barrels.  For instance my 35:2 v4 brass/chrome weights circa 255g 🤔 
 

must admit i thought this lens deceptively light when I took delivery of it but didn’t think much beyond that. another plus point in my book. 👍
 

 

Edited August 6, 2022 by grahamc

[shirubadanieru]

42 minutes ago, grahamc said:

Yes it’s from 1968. Interesting information thanks !

Oh nice, seems the later versions are heavier..maybe more brass parts in the gears? Not sure but if i remember correctly my 1958 and 1959 copies I previously owned weighted less than 165g. Always interesting to find these variations, and also good job finding a 1968 copy  

I do hope Leica remakes either the 8e or the lux sometime soon

[grahamc]

25 minutes ago, shirubadanieru said:

Oh nice, seems the later versions are heavier..maybe more brass parts in the gears? Not sure but if i remember correctly my 1958 and 1959 copies I previously owned weighted less than 165g. Always interesting to find these variations, and also good job finding a 1968 copy  

I do hope Leica remakes either the 8e or the lux sometime soon

Thanks I’m really happy with the lens. For sure due a 35mm remake 🙏🏻 🤞 

[a.noctilux]

As said I'm fan of those 35mm Summicron from "I" to "IV".

Having had weighted some units, no hood nor cap, I can relate here that "IV" Made in Canada media weights are 135g , min. 133g, small variations

same 35 Cron "IV" Wetzlar media weight 155g ( variations 154-156 more or less).

my only Cron "I"(8e) in M2 style is 159g

the goggled Cron "I" (M3 style) 239g

Strange thing that Summaron 2.8/35 with almost same weight as 2/35: 160g (M2) and 237g goggled

[RMF]

I just weighed my 35mm Summicron 8e (from 1966), a 35mm v1 Pre-ASPH infinity lock (also from 1966), and a late model German 35mm Summicron v4 (I think 1994). Weighed them with, and without their respective hoods/filter for comparison.  The 35 v4 is the lightest of the lot, but in reality all of them feel quite light compared to their modern contemporary versions.

 

35 Summilux v1 Pre-asph (Canada 1966, brass infinity lock) 185g, 215g with hood and series UV filter

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35 Summicron v1 8-Element (Canada 1966). 178g, 218g with hood and Leica UV filter.

 

35 Summicron v4 (German 1994). 156g, 173g with hood and Leica UV filter.

Edited September 4, 2022 by RMF