AF Drive Problems Leica S Lenses: Official Statement by Leica

[Jeff S]

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Again, instead of repeatedly swearing to the forum, which leads to nothing, try to get a quote from Leica.

You think Leica isn’t aware of his issues....and others? Really?

 

No excuses.

 

Jeff

[hoppyman]

And here in Australia John I had next business day pickup and delivery of a loaner for my 70CS twice. However when it failed the second time (central shutter) I've now been given an estimate for the repair as it isn't related to the AF. I had always thought that a repair include a post repair warranty period on the whole item thereafter. A request has been sent to the Wetzlar Customer Care Manager for me to clarify that policy. I was considering sending my other lens for preemptive AF fix as the price is known. However if it proves that the lens isn't guaranteed for all faults after that paid service I'm more hesitant.
Only exceptional support from Leica Camera Australia has kept my S system operational without delays thus far.
 

[alan.y]

One can both vent and get a quote. And perhaps Marc did get a quote; “So, I have five lenses I cannot trust that will cost me $2,000 to preemptively repair, not to mention shipping/insurance costs and untold lost time (again), while they are gone for God knows how long.”

[erlingmm]

You think Leica isn’t aware of his issues....and others? Really?

 

No excuses.

 

Jeff

 

 

Of course Leica is aware of the issues, they have even come up with a solution, a year ago now. Of course I understand the anger and frustration towards the AF issue. But you now have a choice - get a repair and move on, or stand still and vent. If you can afford an S and 5 lenses, you can afford a repair, it is less than what I pay in insurance on my system for a year. What I say is that there is a chance that you can get it at a lower cost than this estimate (or quote, which I would try to re-negotiate if that is the case). I have not had a single problem after getting the AF upgrade on mine.

[xiaubauu2009]

Of course Leica is aware of the issues, they have even come up with a solution, a year ago now. Of course I understand the anger and frustration towards the AF issue. But you now have a choice - get a repair and move on, or stand still and vent. If you can afford an S and 5 lenses, you can afford a repair, it is less than what I pay in insurance on my system for a year. What I say is that there is a chance that you can get it at a lower cost than this estimate (or quote, which I would try to re-negotiate if that is the case). I have not had a single problem after getting the AF upgrade on mine.

 

 

I think the anger is mainly because with this level of failure, the market price for Leica S has become quite bad, meaning escaping from this system is a huge financial loss, and if you decide to be loyal and stick to it, or unable and unwilling to take the loss, you ran the risk of the system went discontinue due to bad reputation and low interest, which at current climate, it is highly likely. And if Leica S is discontinued in the next 2 years or so, you will end up with a dead system with 30~40k USD invested. Sure, you can still use it, but you know it's not going to be able to compete with other offering on the market. You can't expect the S to be treated like an M, I think we are more tolerant to the M and accept M for what it is. 

 

Technology develops and if S is unlucky to get the boot, then the loyal S users will be left with an outdated body that will not be updated, and a bunch of good lens they can't adapt to other camera system (not like the R) as the coding for Leica S is locked (easily fix if Leica decide to make it public). Leica will probably make the SL to have more resolution and make that as the S-lens body and stop doing S all together to appease the old S users with 5~ lens in the dry box....

 

I hope there's a S008.

Edited April 13, 2018 by xiaubauu2009

[xiaubauu2009]

And also, I think it will be more beneficial for Leica to clarify what is actually wrong with the component and what if any, kind of changes did they make to the component that will guarantee that part will not fail again.

 

As far as I know, it's a small plastic spur gear that crack and become loose at is shaft, so the motor will spin with no effect on the spur wheel.

The repair shop that do my fix here in Shanghai before Leica come out with the formal solution, was to change it to a brass spur wheel, which I think will screw up the lens further, but I have no choice then.

 

Anyway, the attitude of Leica to this is actually not 100% that good. They should inform us with clear and precise information about what is wrong (I suspect the rewrite of the firmware on S006 to be a more aggressive movement is also part of the culprit) and tell us what this new part changes will guarantee.

[Jeff S]

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Of course Leica is aware of the issues, they have even come up with a solution, a year ago now. Of course I understand the anger and frustration towards the AF issue. But you now have a choice - get a repair and move on, or stand still and vent. If you can afford an S and 5 lenses, you can afford a repair, it is less than what I pay in insurance on my system for a year. What I say is that there is a chance that you can get it at a lower cost than this estimate (or quote, which I would try to re-negotiate if that is the case). I have not had a single problem after getting the AF upgrade on mine.

You missed my points. I was talking about Leica being specifically aware of Marc’s situation. It should be free, and quick. Period. No negotiation. No excuses. The company dropped the ball for him and others.

 

Jeff

[Photon42]

You missed my points. I was talking about Leica being specifically aware of Marc’s situation. It should be free, and quick. Period. No negotiation. No excuses. The company dropped the ball for him and others.

 

Jeff

 

 

Jeff, I do not think he misses your point. What is not clear to Erlingmm (and me) is, whether Leica has been made aware of Marc's situation and he actually had his case discussed up to the appropriate level with Leica. That is what I would do. I always made good experience with friendliness paired with persistence.

 

Regards

Ivo

(still waiting for my 120)

[Jeff S]

Jeff, I do not think he misses your point. What is not clear to Erlingmm (and me) is, whether Leica has been made aware of Marc's situation and he actually had his case discussed up to the appropriate level with Leica. That is what I would do. I always made good experience with friendliness paired with persistence.

 

Regards

Ivo

(still waiting for my 120)

At a minimum, they follow the forum, and his and other stories have been posted multiple times over YEARS. My point is that their policy sucks and there should have been a recall or some other more proactive communications and service approach. And for free. But that ship sailed.

 

Jeff

[erlingmm]

At a minimum, they follow the forum, and his and other stories have been posted multiple times over YEARS. My point is that their policy sucks and there should have been a recall or some other more proactive communications and service approach. And for free. But that ship sailed.

 

Jeff

 

 

So you think Leica should contact unhappy customers based on their complaints in the Forum?

I would seriously like to know whether he has received a quote or not so we can have a discussion based on facts.

If not I have created a special thread for those who again and again, without any new information, need to come back repeatedly just to bash the S, feel free to contribute: 

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/269702-bash-the-s/

Edited April 13, 2018 by erlingmm

[Jeff S]

So you think Leica should contact unhappy customers based on their complaints in the Forum?

I would seriously like to know whether he has received a quote or not.

If not I have created a special thread for those who again and again, without any new information, need to come back repeatedly just to bash the S, feel free to contribute:

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/269702-bash-the-s/

And be sure to add your retort to each post.

 

BTW, Leica didn’t acknowledge or follow up on M screen issues until the forum blew up with complaints. And then a Leica exec responded with a post here and announced a policy shortly after. And, yes, there have also been other instances where members posted here that Leica reached out to them after a forum post.

 

Jeff

Edited April 13, 2018 by Jeff S

[Jeff S]

delete

Edited April 14, 2018 by Jeff S

[Jeff S]

 

BTW, Leica didn’t acknowledge or follow up on M screen issues until the forum blew up with complaints. And then a Leica exec responded with a post here and announced a policy shortly after.

 

Jeff

For those who don’t recall the forum post by Stefan Daniel, with apology.....

 

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/186718-serviceability-m8-m82-displays/

 

We as customers should never be shy about offering complaints, just as we frequently offer praise (myself included).

 

Jeff

Edited April 14, 2018 by Jeff S

[erlingmm]

And be sure to add your retort to each post.

 

BTW, Leica didn’t acknowledge or follow up on M screen issues until the forum blew up with complaints. And then a Leica exec responded with a post here and announced a policy shortly after. And, yes, there have also been other instances where members posted here that Leica reached out to them after a forum post.

 

Jeff

 

 

Are you the new traffic police here? I can count 7 posts from your side in this thread, with this "retort" I am on my 5th.

 

And I am STILL trying to clarify whether there is an actual quote from Leica for doing the AF repair, because I think there is a fair chance that this can be handled better, and to the benefit of the user. 

 

But let me be clear:

- I think Leica has handled the AF issue badly, it has harmed the whole S system, and the used prices of both the body and the lenses.

- It took way too long before a solution came up, and the silence from Leica was deafening

 

- I suspect they had a bad part from an external manufacturer, and needed both to re-design and clear legal issues, but I do not know details. Anyway, it should have been communicated.

 

- I agree that the Forum plays an important role in highlighting issues, and that a high noise level will reach the mothership, whether they reply here or not

 

- A solution to the AF issue was presented a year ago, covered by guarantee in some cases, otherwise at a fairly low cost.

 

That said, now that there IS a solution in place for the AF issue:

 

- I think it is the responsibility of each individual user, through their dealers, to contact Leica and resolve issues and get a quote for repair

 

- A number of users have reported that Leica has sorted out the AF issue at low or no cost

- I prefer a fact-based discussion  - has the user in question obtained a quote or not?

 

- I have not seen any user report errors after AF upgrade

 

- Personally I think it is worth it, even at some cost, to protect my investment in a system that I still think performs great.  It is still, in my opinion the most versatile MF system.

 

- I print up to 60*210 cm images from my Leica S on my Canon PRO-2000, and lack of resolution is definitely not an issue.

 

 

Pure speculation follows:

- I expect Leica to come with a "S008" at approx 60 mpix at or around Photokina, and I look forward to the upgrade. 

 

- It comes late, but Leica never leads the megapixel race, and Leica is always more expensive than comparable systems. If you don't think it is worth it, buy something else.

 

- There are systems with higher pixel count, if you need it buy it.

- Should the worst case materialize - no new S - at least the lenses are fully functional on the SL with the adapter, but I am quite confident there will be a new S

Edited April 14, 2018 by erlingmm

[Jeff S]

And here’s an example where a customer (Manolo) was contacted by Leica, specifically as a result of starting a thread on the S forum...

 

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/250720-30-90-zoom-first-impressions/page-2?do=findComment&comment=2925639

 

Jeff

[Jeff S]

Are you the new traffic police here? ]

Quite the opposite....I rejected your concern that there was too much bashing and that such posts should be put in a dedicated thread. That’s policing. You and I should be able to post what we want (within forum rules), where we want (mods will move if warranted), and as often as we want.

 

Jeff

[erlingmm]

And here’s an example where a customer (Manolo) was contacted by Leica, specifically as a result of starting a thread on the S forum...

 

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/250720-30-90-zoom-first-impressions/page-2?do=findComment&comment=2925639

 

Jeff

 

 

<Retort> Great when it happens, but I would count on it if I have a problem.

[erlingmm]

Quite the opposite....I rejected your concern that there was too much bashing and that such posts should be put in a dedicated thread. That’s policing. You and I should be able to post what we want (within forum rules), where we want (mods will move if warranted), and as often as we want.

 

Jeff

 

Nonono, I said if there is nothing new, then there is a special thread for that. Now AFTER there is a solution to the AF problem I would expect people at least to TRY to resolve it with Leica directly.

For the nTH time, is this discussion based on the user having a quote from Leica or not?

 

(Sorry, I am in another timezone, going to a party now, no more retorts from my side tonight)

[Jeff S]

Nonono, I said if there is nothing new, then there is a special thread for that. Now AFTER there is a solution to the AF problem I would expect people at least to TRY to resolve it with Leica directly.

For the nTH time, is this discussion based on the user having a quote from Leica or not?

 

(Sorry, I am in another timezone, going to a party now, no more retorts from my side tonight)

You wrote in your other thread.... “Feel free to post it all here, but please let those of us who use and love the system have our discussions on topic in other threads !”

 

If that isn’t playing traffic cop, then I don’t know what is.

 

And in case you hadn’t noticed, this thread is specifically related to AF drive problems and the Leica policy. Pretty good place to complain about the policy, I would think. And as often as desired.

 

Marc is free to address his concerns as he sees fit. I think after his many, many years of experience with Leica, he doesn’t need advice on how to approach the company, either directly or through his long standing dealer relationships. You really think he hasn’t taken steps to communicate?

 

Jeff

Edited April 14, 2018 by Jeff S

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[erlingmm]

This thread more or less died last September with #120. Almost 4 months later #121 wrote:

 

"Now that the fix has been out for while, what is the experiences so far? Any issues with AF on repaired lenses? " and what followed for a while was an exchange on experiences with lens repair and repaired lenses.

 

Then, the tread fell back to what Leica should have done in the past.

 

I, and some other contributors have moved on from that, and use the system for what it is worth.

 

But if you want to bang the door, feel free, by all means. I just think there are more direct and constructive approaches to get lenses repaired.

 

Thats all from me.