105012 Posted March 14, 2017 Share #1 Posted March 14, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Over on dpreview there is the following statement made by a reviewer: Several times I raised the M10 to my eye and tried to take a shot, forgetting the camera was turned off, and in the ~1.5 seconds it takes to power up, the scene had changed and the moment had passed. https://www.dpreview.com/opinion/4118757797/a-german-in-japan-leica-m10-shooting-experience Any thoughts? Slow card? Anyway this is disappointing, I really think Leica should just delete the on-off switch all together and make startup <0.1s. Put the card check etc on a separate thread (fellow programmer's will know what I mean), and activate the camera on control movement. How hard can it be? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 14, 2017 Posted March 14, 2017 Hi 105012, Take a look here Slow start up time?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
a.noctilux Posted March 14, 2017 Share #2 Posted March 14, 2017 Analog (less M7) Leica users have not this on/off trouble. But sometime they forget to uncap the lens and the fleeting moment gone also. On my M10, never set to off (no cap ...) untill the end of the photographic day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
105012 Posted March 14, 2017 Author Share #3 Posted March 14, 2017 Analog (less M7) Leica users have not this on/off trouble. But sometime they forget to uncap the lens and the fleeting moment gone also. The M3 is my primary Leica, so I agree I just write to hear the views of the digerati Also, I never use a lens cap, and always have one of the M3's in my hand or hanging from my wrist because if I used a lens cap I would have many completely black decisive moments Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanJW Posted March 14, 2017 Share #4 Posted March 14, 2017 Over on dpreview there is the following statement made by a reviewer: https://www.dpreview.com/opinion/4118757797/a-german-in-japan-leica-m10-shooting-experience Any thoughts? Slow card? Anyway this is disappointing, I really think Leica should just delete the on-off switch all together and make startup <0.1s. Put the card check etc on a separate thread (fellow programmer's will know what I mean), and activate the camera on control movement. How hard can it be? What do you mean by "control movement"? Can't be the f stop because there's no link there. Could be the shutter dial but that would create its own problems. Theoretically could be the focus ring, but that too creates problems. If it is bringing the camera up to your eye, that works, but then how would you easily set menu items? If it is camera movement, and you are walking around or even traveling with camera in a case, it could result in many false ons. And the battery is smaller to start with. So maybe it isn't so easy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalfx Posted March 14, 2017 Share #5 Posted March 14, 2017 So this isn't operator error? "forgetting the camera was turned off" I leave my camera on while shooting and let power management handle the rest...this has never been an issue for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jager Posted March 14, 2017 Share #6 Posted March 14, 2017 Well, digital cameras have quite a lot more start-up processing to do than does a (mostly) analog camera. So comparing an M10 to an M7 seems somewhat amiss. And a 1.5 second boot time seems perfectly reasonable to me. Frankly, I have a hard time working up sympathy for a photographer who walks around with their camera off, the lens cap on, and then complains about missing a shot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmars Posted March 14, 2017 Share #7 Posted March 14, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have never a cap on my lenses. And start up time bothers me. Not the start, when You turn on the camera, but the wake up, after the camera has fallen into sleep. Both takes the same time. The slow M9 has a quick wake up, You can shoot at once. Why not with the more powerfull and faster M10? To prevent me from sloe wake up, I have set Auto power of to 10 min. But this costs much energy. Two hours of stand by without LV or any photo or other action taken and You loose 60 % capacity. I measured it. Elmar Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 14, 2017 Share #8 Posted March 14, 2017 Over on dpreview there is the following statement made by a reviewer: https://www.dpreview.com/opinion/4118757797/a-german-in-japan-leica-m10-shooting-experience Any thoughts? Slow card? Anyway this is disappointing, I really think Leica should just delete the on-off switch all together and make startup <0.1s. Put the card check etc on a separate thread (fellow programmer's will know what I mean), and activate the camera on control movement. How hard can it be? Great Thinkers switch on their camera before they raise it to their eye, in the 1.5 sec it takes to make the movement and grab the focus ring the camera will have woken up. Genius Photographers survey their surroundings and switch on the camera when a shooting situation appears to mature... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustafasoleiman Posted March 14, 2017 Share #9 Posted March 14, 2017 Great Thinkers switch on their camera before they raise it to their eye, in the 1.5 sec it takes to make the movement and grab the focus ring the camera will have woken up. Genius Photographers survey their surroundings and switch on the camera when a shooting situation appears to mature... Ah... But that requires thinking... The manual says nothing about that! Alex Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmars Posted March 14, 2017 Share #10 Posted March 14, 2017 Great Thinkers switch on their camera before they raise it to their eye, in the 1.5 sec it takes to make the movement and grab the focus ring the camera will have woken up. Genius Photographers survey their surroundings and switch on the camera when a shooting situation appears to mature... There are cameras, that prevent the photographer from thinking (like the M9). Why not the M10? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalfx Posted March 14, 2017 Share #11 Posted March 14, 2017 maybe I'm getting old and slow...but it takes me a least 1 second to raise the camera and get a focus. My technique has always been to set camera to 2 min in power management and leave it on at all times when the camera is on me. Then as I walk around, if I sense a photo moment is about to happen I just tap the shutter to wake up the camera...sometimes I take a shot, sometimes I don't. With this method I'm constantly waking the camera as I walk about and so far I've rarely missed a shot. No need to turn off the camera to save battery. I find when left on all day with sleep set to 2 min, the battery lasts all day + And its much faster to constantly wake the camera by tapping the shutter than it is to turn on/off the camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jager Posted March 14, 2017 Share #12 Posted March 14, 2017 Then as I walk around, if I sense a photo moment is about to happen I just tap the shutter to wake up the camera...sometimes I take a shot, sometimes I don't. With this method I'm constantly waking the camera as I walk about and so far I've rarely missed a shot. This. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted March 14, 2017 Share #13 Posted March 14, 2017 Great Thinkers switch on their camera before they raise it to their eye, in the 1.5 sec it takes to make the movement and grab the focus ring the camera will have woken up. Genius Photographers survey their surroundings and switch on the camera when a shooting situation appears to mature... Agreed. I lack the coordination, memory and mental agility to be a Great Thinker, so I settle for being a Genius. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stef63 Posted March 14, 2017 Share #14 Posted March 14, 2017 Any thoughts? Slow card? Anyway this is disappointing, I really think Leica should just delete the on-off switch all together and make startup <0.1s. Put the card check etc on a separate thread (fellow programmer's will know what I mean), and activate the camera on control movement. How hard can it be? Startup with or without a card in the camera seams the same to me. Just powering up the camera takes a second. No big deal. I do not think much card checking is done or skipping it would make a big difference. And forgetting the camera was off? Doubt this is what is going be the single reason you miss a shot. What about the time to focus, framing, getting the exposure parameters correctly etc? Power up time of the M is nothing compared to getting all the parameters right to get a good picture... And like others said, leave it on, leave it go to sleep end wake the cam with a single push of the button... and then start to get everything else correctly set. It's a procedure. It's a habit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
105012 Posted March 15, 2017 Author Share #15 Posted March 15, 2017 What do you mean by "control movement"? Can't be the f stop because there's no link there. Could be the shutter dial but that would create its own problems. Theoretically could be the focus ring, but that too creates problems. If it is bringing the camera up to your eye, that works, but then how would you easily set menu items? If it is camera movement, and you are walking around or even traveling with camera in a case, it could result in many false ons. And the battery is smaller to start with. So maybe it isn't so easy. For example, the shutter button. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
105012 Posted March 15, 2017 Author Share #16 Posted March 15, 2017 Great Thinkers switch on their camera before they raise it to their eye, in the 1.5 sec it takes to make the movement and grab the focus ring the camera will have woken up. Genius Photographers survey their surroundings and switch on the camera when a shooting situation appears to mature... 1.5 seconds is a long time when it can be <0.1s. I have a modern Fuji that starts up in about 0.5s, so we should not think this is a task which is too hard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
105012 Posted March 15, 2017 Author Share #17 Posted March 15, 2017 maybe I'm getting old and slow...but it takes me a least 1 second to raise the camera and get a focus. My technique has always been to set camera to 2 min in power management and leave it on at all times when the camera is on me. Then as I walk around, if I sense a photo moment is about to happen I just tap the shutter to wake up the camera...sometimes I take a shot, sometimes I don't. With this method I'm constantly waking the camera as I walk about and so far I've rarely missed a shot. No need to turn off the camera to save battery. I find when left on all day with sleep set to 2 min, the battery lasts all day + And its much faster to constantly wake the camera by tapping the shutter than it is to turn on/off the camera. I really don't want to walk around reflexively twitching the shutter all the time, just design the device (hardware/software) better, it can be done. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
garygraphy Posted March 15, 2017 Share #18 Posted March 15, 2017 I am particularly sensitive to power on lag... M240 was a slow one for me, and I had to format the SD cards in the special SD formatter software on computer and not in camera just for it to have a decent start up time. I never faced a lag on M9 / MM. I am pleased to report that I similarly did not face any start-up lag time on the M10. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmars Posted March 15, 2017 Share #19 Posted March 15, 2017 There are some reports on time lags. My M10 has one too, about one second. Why do You have none? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanJW Posted March 15, 2017 Share #20 Posted March 15, 2017 For example, the shutter button. A good way then to make sure that you take your camera from the bag, it will have a drained battery. Unless you have a way to absolutely make sure the shutter button will not be waking the camera up when in the bag. I just don't see a way around an on-off switch of some kind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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