chrisbo Posted June 18, 2007 Share #1 Posted June 18, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Anyone have any idea why there are no serious published reviews of the Digilux 3 camera out there? What few reviews I’ve found on-line are really just a re-printing of the Leica press release from 2006. The camera has been available for a good while now and I’d like to review the specifics about how its performance compares to the Panasonic L1 and other cameras. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted June 18, 2007 Share #2 Posted June 18, 2007 I did a fairly extensive review of the camera earlier this year. Cheers, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted June 19, 2007 Share #3 Posted June 19, 2007 We Digilux 3 owners are keeping the magnificent camera a secret so everybody doesn't buy one. Seriously........it is a fine camera and works very well. I hadn't seen a great deal of "published" reviews either and used my own hands on testing to make up my mind. I am definitely not sorry I bought it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 19, 2007 Share #4 Posted June 19, 2007 It is indeed a funny thing. DpReview, one of the places where one would expect in-depth reviews has not even done the M8 yet, let alone the Digilux. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted June 19, 2007 Share #5 Posted June 19, 2007 Panasonic are rather well covered in Italian Photo magazines... and I remember having read a review of the Pana L1 in which the writer rudely wrote that his considerations could be applied also to Digilux 3... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wstotler Posted June 19, 2007 Share #6 Posted June 19, 2007 Interesting point you make. There do seem to be fewer reviews of the Digilux 3 than the Digilux 2--and there weren't really that many of the Digilux 2 (although there were a few really deep reviews of that camera). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spylaw4 Posted June 19, 2007 Share #7 Posted June 19, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) IIRC there was a comparative review of the L1, D3, and a similar Oly (can't recall which) in one of the mags some time ago. Virtually nothing between them but I think the Oly was marginally preferred - probably for some unimportant reason! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_w_davies Posted June 19, 2007 Share #8 Posted June 19, 2007 IIRC there was a comparative review of the L1, D3, and a similar Oly (can't recall which) in one of the mags some time ago. Virtually nothing between them but I think the Oly was marginally preferred - probably for some unimportant reason! You may be talking about the comparative review between the L1, D3 and E330 in Amateur Photographer magazine. Yes, they did prefer the E330. They found it less noisy at high isos and the files had a more "film like" look to them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riley Posted June 19, 2007 Share #9 Posted June 19, 2007 It is indeed a funny thing. DpReview, one of the places where one would expect in-depth reviews has not even done the M8 yet, let alone the Digilux. indeed, nothing funny about that people at the Olympus dSLR forum were ready to put the torch to Askey over the way he handled the E-410 review fiasco. He was being accused of bias in a number of areas and it began to get very public. When it finally was unveiled he made sure he outlined the cameras features without the usual cursory dismissal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted June 19, 2007 Share #10 Posted June 19, 2007 Phil Askey biased? Tell me it isn't so! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisbo Posted June 19, 2007 Author Share #11 Posted June 19, 2007 Thanks Luigi. I've found several Panasonic DMC L1 reviews. One of the best was at Camera Labs: Digital Camera, Digital SLR and Lens Reviews, Workshops, News. The reviewer loved the Leica lens and even took to attaching it to the Olympus E-330 and E-410 to show how wonderful they worked together. The E330 setup looked like a lens with a small camera box attached to the back. I couldn't help but notice how the E-510 with it's load of features (including very low shutter lag in live view mode) and relatively small size looked like it would clearly out perform the L1 & Digilux 3 if it had the Leica lens from the Digilux 3 attached. I'm trying to find some independent reviews specific to the Digilux 3 to confirm that there really is a difference between the L1 and the Digilux 3, other than than Leica's beautiful red-dot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisbo Posted June 19, 2007 Author Share #12 Posted June 19, 2007 That was my exact impression as well when I was looking at the Digilux 2's. I ended up buying the Digilux 2 in spite of the mixed reviews, the price and the criticism. The choice was more emotional that logical. My grandfather used a Leica in WW II. I've wanted one since I was a boy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisbo Posted June 19, 2007 Author Share #13 Posted June 19, 2007 Thanks for the reference guys. I initially set out in my search for reviews with a strong bias in favor of the Digilux 3. When I couldn't find any meaningful reviews, I looked for reviews for the Panasonic DMC-L1. The L1 reviews uniformly note that the noise level is very apparent after ISO 400. (they also uniformly complain about the mirror clacking and long shutter delay when using the live view mode). This was a surprise, because I had thought that the fast Leica lens with optical image stabilization would make up for the higher noise level found in the smaller L1 / Digilux 3 image sensor. In theory, you could shoot at ISO 400 or below in much darker settings and should get very good results with the fast lens and image stablization. I was also surprised at the long "live view" shutter delay with the related multiple slapping and clacking of the mirror because it looks like this issue has been eliminated in the Olympus E-510 model. I thought Leica and Panasonic had obtained the "live view" technology from Olympus. I might be able to get by with the Digilux 3's less than state of the art sensor and "live view" mode that appear to be much less than what's available in the Olympus E-510 (and at a much reduced cost). I also would consider doing without the excellent high ISO performance of the Nikon's and Canon's. However, my main worry is the limited three point auto focus area and the speed of the auto focus noted on the L1 which is presumably present on the Digilux 3 as well. I've had trouble with getting a quick auto focus on my Digilux 2 which has caused me to loose a bunch of photo opportunities. I've read that this limited auto focus is a result of the small sensor used by the Leica, Olympus and Panasonic models. I really dislike the size, weight, plasticity and look of the Nikon D200. To me they look like large overly ergonomic plastic dinner plates. However, when I accidentally pressed the shutter button in the store while checking out the D200, it popped off five RAW shots before I could get my finger off the button. I went to the viewfinder to delete the photos and saw that all of them were crystal clear, sharp and in focus with excellent white balance. This was true though the pictures were taken accidentally without any presetting of the menus, the D200's dog-slow Nikon kit lens and no flash. Cost issues aside, the lack of reviews for the Digilux 3 and my accidental experience in the D200 has caused much hand-wringing on my part trying to figure out if the Digilux 3 or even the L1 would be a mistake. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisbo Posted June 19, 2007 Author Share #14 Posted June 19, 2007 Thanks. I appreciate your input. I love Leica's, but I'm doing the usual hand wringing over investing in the Digilux 3, Olympus 510 or the Nikons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 19, 2007 Share #15 Posted June 19, 2007 Autofocus??? What on earth are you going to gain by having autofocus?? http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/26329-real-men-use-manual-af-birds.html Seriously: I find AF overrated; my main subjects are wildlife and landscape. in both cases AF tends to spoil shots, focussing on some branch instead of the animal, a wingtip instead of a beak, missing the framing because of shutterlag, putting the plane of focus in the wrong place in a landscape. I prefer the control of manual focus, even, no, especially in action shots. One of the best bird photographers there is, he is on this forum, uses a Leicaflex SL because of this. That is why the Digilux3 would never be a useful camera for me, I find the viewfinder not very good for manual focussing, nor the majority of DSLR's, indeed all cameras laid out for autofocus. But hey! that is just me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dugby Posted June 20, 2007 Share #16 Posted June 20, 2007 Chris, the initial negative reports on L1 / D3 autofocus was attributed to the cameras having a default setting of 3-zones (ie Left, center, right) autofocus. This causes the CPU to attempt multiple measurements and calculations of what focal point to choose. It was slow and confusing. However if you set AF to "center" only, it is very very fast. I still use my D2 and do tend to miss a few shots when shooting AF. Its still a great image capturer, but requires 'relatively slow deliberate' shooting techniques. For street shots, when I use my L1, setup as described above, it is very fast with accurate AF focus. I do not miss the shots that I do with my D2. I did a recent trip to Tokyo, Paris and London and posted samples on this forum earlier this year of some of these street shots. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riley Posted June 20, 2007 Share #17 Posted June 20, 2007 looking at reviews on the basis of L1, these will tend to be older Panasonic Lumix DMC-L1 Review: 1. Introduction: Digital Photography Review Megapixel.net DCRP Review: Panasonic Lumix DMC-L1 Panasonic Lumix DMC L1 Review Panasonic Lumix DMC-L1 full review Cameralabs introduction Panasonic DMC-L1 Digital SLR - PhotographyBLOG Camera Test: Panasonic Lumix DMC-L1 - - PopPhotoDecember 2006 Panasonic Lumix DMC-L1 BIOS: Technology Means Business Panasonic Lumix DMC-L1 Digital SLR - Digital Camera Reviews - Photoxels TrustedReviews - Panasonic DMC-L1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
miami91 Posted June 20, 2007 Share #18 Posted June 20, 2007 Personally, I think the "excessive noise over ISO 400" is a bit of a straw man. Compared to the legendary high ISO performance of Canon, or compared to a full-frame digicam, yes, the D3 is noisy. And I would agree that the noise in ISO 1600 is excessive, but 800 is quite nice, and a speed I use quite frequently, especially given the fact that I shoot a lot with my two Zuiko lenses, which do not have IS built in like the kit lens. I'm already looking forward to the Digilux 4 (or whatever the next iteration of Leica four-thirds will be called). Olympus has apparently greatly improved the high-ISO performance in the E-510, and with the prospect of IS built into the camera body itself, the low-light performance gap between four-thirds and Nikon/Canon will hopefully have closed quite a bit. Jeff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastFashnReloaded Posted June 20, 2007 Share #19 Posted June 20, 2007 Personally, I think the "excessive noise over ISO 400" is a bit of a straw man. Compared to the legendary high ISO performance of Canon, or compared to a full-frame digicam, yes, the D3 is noisy. And I would agree that the noise in ISO 1600 is excessive, but 800 is quite nice, and a speed I use quite frequently, especially given the fact that I shoot a lot with my two Zuiko lenses, which do not have IS built in like the kit lens. I'm already looking forward to the Digilux 4 (or whatever the next iteration of Leica four-thirds will be called). Olympus has apparently greatly improved the high-ISO performance in the E-510, and with the prospect of IS built into the camera body itself, the low-light performance gap between four-thirds and Nikon/Canon will hopefully have closed quite a bit. Jeff. The noise "issue" between a $1000 present day Oly and a $1000 present day Canon isn't that extreme, from what I've seen. My E-500 is too noisy at 1600, 800 is fine. I've heard the 510 is a lot better. Oly Pana/Leica doesn't have a $5000 pro SLR to compete with the EOS 1D-III, which has AF issues but is usable to 6400asa. If Oly made a $5000 pro SLR, which I don't see happening, then you would be comparing apples to apples. It would be nice, I think to have a noise free M, but we've just made a jump from a max shutter speed of 1k, and film, directly into the modern era. The M8 is a first generation digicam that two years ago people thought was next to impossible. I think it is pretty amazing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riley Posted June 20, 2007 Share #20 Posted June 20, 2007 certainly Olympus have met the opposition so far as noise is concerned i think both 410/510 defeat 400D and XTi for noise, although not by a lot D40 possibly beats them all, not much in that either though the Olympus can be shot in daylight at 1600 to support speed and makes nice images but like other cameras from APS C this size its still a bit noisy in low light certainly 800iso looks fairly routine this is one from the net by E-410 at iso 1600, EXIF in tact, vers .9 firmware Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/26965-digilux-3-reviews-the-silence-is-deafening/?do=findComment&comment=285984'>More sharing options...
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