GVarano Posted February 21, 2017 Share #41 Posted February 21, 2017 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) Hamad, there always seems to be this comparison and a load of miss information. I and it would take me an hour or so to clear it all up. The first question you have to ask yourself is this " do I want to capture images in monochrome or colour or both? It will be an expensive lesson if you go monochrome , then decide you want to shoot colour again. So what is the difference between the two cameras above the obvious. The final print is the true measure not what seen on the screen of a computer, tablet or cell phone. The difference the n is not ground braking, in fact it is had to tell which is which that is if you approach black and white image capture in the same way you would with film. With film the use of contrast filters is a must to control the light values in the overall print. Green, yellow, orange, red and deep red filters. Filters are used pretty well always on the lens to control contrast and the highlight and shadows values. On the monochrome you will have to buy the filters attach them to the front of the lens and adjust the exposure buy the filter factor as the filter will decrease the amount of light reaching the image sensor or film. For example, light yellow would be about a stop, red 4 stops. If you were capturing or photographing at lets say 400 ISO, For yellow you would have to adjust the ISO for the filter factor, which would make it 200 ISO, red filter, the ISO would have to be adjusted to an ISO of 50. The Monochrome has an ISO max of 10,000 the 240 is 6400, the numbers look really different and it seems the monochrome is much more sensitive but it not, it's less than a stop, about 2/3 of a stop in exposure. A full would over the M240 would need to be 12,800 ISO. Your best images will come at the base ISO or slightly above. Now the M240 in Black and white has the filter profiles in the menu for Green, Yellow, Orange, Red. You can customize them to suite your subject or the style you choose, the bonus no effect to the ISO you choose, So if your shooting at ISO640 and choose the red profile which is a filter factor of 4, The ISO remains ISO640, The monochrome at ISO 640, with a red number 25 filter will have to have it's ISO drop down to ISO 100 to make up for the filter factor. So in the end ISO10,000 is irrelevant in image capture. Now unless all your lenses are say 39mm thread, they most likely aren't. you will be buying contrast filters. The M240 you can use any lens from any manufacture as the profile work with any lens attached. What difference do contrast filters make, take a look art work from Edward Weston, his son Brett, or Ansel Adams. The results from the M240 will astound you and you will have the colour DNG file for backup, monochrome you don't. Edited February 21, 2017 by GVarano 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 21, 2017 Posted February 21, 2017 Hi GVarano, Take a look here Is M Monochrome really worth if still own M240. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
phovsho Posted March 10, 2017 Share #42 Posted March 10, 2017 It is the reason that the 63 Fender Princeton (as one shining example) still has a voice and place in music studios. Sometimes you want a signal to break up in just the right way. The MM1 seems to have this quality, in a camera. Leica MM1 with Rigid - Fender Harvard 1959. Amp is sitting next to me, so couldn't resist. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 2 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/269427-is-m-monochrome-really-worth-if-still-own-m240/?do=findComment&comment=3230611'>More sharing options...
Belle123 Posted March 12, 2017 Share #43 Posted March 12, 2017 (edited) High ISO and use of filters is not important to me. The images from the M246 are quite a bit different than converted to B/w from 240. Have had both. After got the monochrome, dumped the 240. You can't get the same look in color to b/w conversion. The detail the M246 brings out is lovely. But, you really have to be dedicated to B/w. If not, get the 240 or M10. I will consider upgrading to M10 when the monochrome version is available. Edited March 12, 2017 by billinghambaglady 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmradman Posted March 12, 2017 Share #44 Posted March 12, 2017 High ISO and use of filters is not important to me. The images from the M246 are quite a bit different than converted to B/w from 240. Have had both. After got the monochrome, dumped the 240. You can't get the same look in color to b/w conversion. The detail the M246 brings out is lovely. But, you really have to be dedicated to B/w. If not, get the 240 or M10. I will consider upgrading to M10 when the monochrome version is available. Imagine future three way preference discussion; M9M vs M246 vs M10M :-) 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterjcb Posted March 12, 2017 Share #45 Posted March 12, 2017 Leica MM1 with Rigid - Fender Harvard 1959. Amp is sitting next to me, so couldn't resist. nice!....I sold a vintage Ampeg tube B-15 piggyback about 10 years ago and to this day I regret it... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genn Posted March 19, 2017 Share #46 Posted March 19, 2017 Well, there is a difference in quality of pictures. One reason is in quality of lenses. Chromatic aberrations are visible for most of lenses and it is difficult to correct them, thus not that easy to apply a software orange filter to RGB picture. I can get white lines between black branches and dark sky - if I use M240. Such picture is not clean enough. M246 is immune to chromatic aberrations and other color issues. Thus - old lenses can be used and pictures with orange filter will be better. However - M246 has narrow dynamic range than M240. If we overexpose green channel of M240 - red and blue might be ok and it is possible to get more information from them. If we overexpose image of M246 it is not possible to restore the lights. Thus I usually check each picture, taken with M246 for overexposures and if needed - adjust shutter speed. These are technical advantages\disadvantages of both cameras for landscape photography. There might be different pros and cons for other applications as well. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cirke Posted March 20, 2017 Share #47 Posted March 20, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) a monochrom sensor has 0 interest you get exactly the same with a color sensor, it is only good for marketing Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted March 20, 2017 Share #48 Posted March 20, 2017 a monochrom sensor has 0 interest you get exactly the same with a color sensor, it is only good for marketing This happens not to be the case. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cirke Posted March 20, 2017 Share #49 Posted March 20, 2017 (edited) This happens not to be the case. It is totally, 100% and definitively the same, but if you are free to believe the contrary Edited March 20, 2017 by siangue Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted March 20, 2017 Share #50 Posted March 20, 2017 It is totally, 100% and definitively the same, but if you are free to believe the contrary Yes, except that the monochrome sensor has in effect about four times as many pixels, but otherwise it's absolutely the same and can in no way be told from an image interpolated from a picture taken with a CFA. Also, you can apply different color sensitivity curves to a picture taken in color while you can not do so with a picture recorded in mono. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belle123 Posted March 20, 2017 Share #51 Posted March 20, 2017 It is totally, 100% and definitively the same, but if you are free to believe the contrary Have a suggestion. Assuming you have a digital M, take it apart, remove the Bayer filter(think I have that right), put it back together, and then see if you see the difference. Good Luck.....ha! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted March 20, 2017 Share #52 Posted March 20, 2017 (edited) Post a colour image from an M camera, and let any of us interpret it to B&W renditions. Until that challenge has been made all text conversations are meaningless. Show your pictures. Show your work. Edited March 20, 2017 by pico Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cirke Posted March 20, 2017 Share #53 Posted March 20, 2017 (edited) Post a colour image with an M colour camera, and let any of us interpret it to B&W renditions. Until that we evince that challenge, all text conversations are meaningless. Show your pictures. Show your work. No ! Show me a mono sensor photo that cannot be done with a color sensor (same sensor generation) , it's impossible and will never happen I have many dng shots at the same moment same lens with MM and M240, I shall never put 1€ in a mono camera Edited March 20, 2017 by siangue Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeicaPassion Posted March 20, 2017 Share #54 Posted March 20, 2017 Several years ago at a Leica workshop, I saw a MM1 vs. M9 black and white comparison. The MM1 files had much better tones,shadow detail, and could be used at a higher ISO for equivalent quality. I have not seen a 240 vs. 246 comparison. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJJon Posted March 21, 2017 Share #55 Posted March 21, 2017 No ! Show me a mono sensor photo that cannot be done with a color sensor (same sensor generation) , it's impossible and will never happen I have many dng shots at the same moment same lens with MM and M240, I shall never put 1€ in a mono camera Why in the world do you care? Some people get it, some don't. Let us be. Focus your energy elsewhere. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJJon Posted March 21, 2017 Share #56 Posted March 21, 2017 Several years ago at a Leica workshop, I saw a MM1 vs. M9 black and white comparison. The MM1 files had much better tones,shadow detail, and could be used at a higher ISO for equivalent quality. I have not seen a 240 vs. 246 comparison. There are some very good comparisons on the web that I have seen that show the differences fairly well. Of course I use a 4K monitor that is properly calibrated. Sorry I don't have any links. They are out there though. I really like my MM1. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJJon Posted March 21, 2017 Share #57 Posted March 21, 2017 (edited) MM1 Untouched SOOC .jpg. Voigtlander 75mm f1.8 at maybe 5.6 or 8. Nothing special I suppose, but I like to search around at all the texture. It does very well in low light too. Great for bars and concerts. Can you spot the fly? Edited March 21, 2017 by CJJon 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david strachan Posted March 21, 2017 Share #58 Posted March 21, 2017 Here's a rigorous comparison of a couple of Leica Monochrome cameras vs M240, by David Farkas, at Red Dot Forum. Admittedly a studio test. It seemed to mainly come down to higher ISO ability with the Monochromes vs the M240. http://www.reddotforum.com/content/2015/06/bw-iso-showdown-leica-m-monochrom-typ-246-vs-m-monochrom-m9-vs-m-typ-240/ I certainly can't tell which camera (any brand) is used to make B&W, except if it's film, on my monitor. Considering the different processing, by different photographers. I'm not sure I'd pick it in print either...comparing digital B&W's that is. Let's face it they all do a great job, and it's really just splitting hairs, isn't it? ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cirke Posted April 14, 2017 Share #59 Posted April 14, 2017 (edited) It is just a matter of firmware A monochrome sensor has 0 advantages It is just marketing But let's wait a few weeks or months and you will see by your own iPhone with Tapatalk Edited April 14, 2017 by siangue 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke_Miller Posted April 15, 2017 Share #60 Posted April 15, 2017 The M-240 and M-246 use the same monochrome sensor, but the M-240 has a Bayer Array in front of that sensor that reduces the amount of light reaching it. The color filters in the Bayer Array are necessary to the process that calculates color information from the monochrome M-240 sensor data. This process interpolates data from adjacent pixels on the sensor. The net result is a loss of a stop or so of sensitivity and and an image where (due to interpolation) each color pixel does not map directly to a monochrome pixel on the sensor. This interpolation results in a slight loss in resolving fine detail. In images from the M-246 more light reaches the sensor and each pixel in the sensor maps directly to a pixel in the image. The result is improved dynamic range, ISO performance, and increased detail in the images. Whether these advantages compensate for the inability to capture color images is a matter of personal preference. In my case they do, but others can reasonably come to a different conclusion. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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