lct Posted February 22, 2017 Share #261 Posted February 22, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Andy, the viewfinder/RF of the 240 are considerably better than the M9. Indeed and i've never got the reddish colors of the M9 on my M240. No banding below 6400 iso either. Doesn't reach the level of my A7s mod re digital noise of course but neither does the M10 anyway. The latter would interest me if i had chosen the M9 instead of the M240 though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 22, 2017 Posted February 22, 2017 Hi lct, Take a look here M10? - Sorry, no!. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Dirk Mandeville Posted February 22, 2017 Share #262 Posted February 22, 2017 I bought the M9 but skipped the M240. I just didn't feel like it was enough of an improvement to justify the cost, and I wasn't happy with the implementation of the EVF (which was a generation behind virtually from the moment of its release and non-upgradeable). So the M10 seems to me to be a huge upgrade from the M9 and well worth the cost to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted February 22, 2017 Share #263 Posted February 22, 2017 Had I not bought an SL, I would be in the same boat, I'd think. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted February 22, 2017 Share #264 Posted February 22, 2017 ........... I hope that is all understandable. I understand your reasons even though I don't share many of them. But I hadn't understood FiT's. Yet again, it proves only one thing and we already know it. We're all different. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted February 22, 2017 Share #265 Posted February 22, 2017 @jaapv - the viewfinder was certainly not better when the camera was OFF. Just an empty window. But you'll note I did not mention the viewfinder quality per se, just other operational aspects of the M240 viewing that got in my way. Whatever quality improvement the M240 viewfinder had - it was not worth putting up with the secondary defects I listed. Or such was my professional, working-photographer evaluation. @lct - so you say, and you've said so before. My practical working experience with three different M240 bodies was as I described. Used, yes, but less than three years old - and they all showed banding starting between 2500 and 4000. My remaining M9 is seven years old, and does not band at any settable ISO. This is what I got with one M240 at ISO 2500 indoors - not acceptable. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/269227-m10-sorry-no/?do=findComment&comment=3219392'>More sharing options...
lct Posted February 22, 2017 Share #266 Posted February 22, 2017 Well i won't bother you with my crappy test pics, we've discussed about this already. I got indeed bandings when i underexposed and had to push in PP but otherwise none visible at 3200 or even 4000 isos. Now my Sony is so superior in this respect that i don't shoot above 3200 iso anymore to be honest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cirke Posted February 23, 2017 Share #267 Posted February 23, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) M10? - Sorry, no! Normally no , but I'll get it to use my M lenses Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 23, 2017 Share #268 Posted February 23, 2017 I moved the discussion on Mico Four Thirds and Leica DG lenses out of this thead for being OT. It can be found here: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/269711-discussing-leica-lenses-on-micro-43rds/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
garygraphy Posted February 27, 2017 Share #269 Posted February 27, 2017 I like their approach. I think many still don't get the das wesentliche take on camera design. Instead of the approach taken by other camera companies in trying to pile up features, Leica is to remove as much as possible and yet still maintain at its core the essence of photography, mind you, not video... It seems lost on many but the UX re-conceptualisation is one that many companies have taken a lot of study in and I am glad Leica appears to be on the forefront of that. Shrinking the number of buttons and designing a shallow, simplified menu system are all steps in the right direction and from the interview with them, they are clearly not done yet and want to reduce even more. Sony is perhaps the worse in the industry today with just tossing everything in mind without a thought on usability or ease of visualisation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted February 27, 2017 Share #270 Posted February 27, 2017 I like their approach. I think many still don't get the das wesentliche take on camera design. Instead of the approach taken by other camera companies in trying to pile up features, Leica is to remove as much as possible and yet still maintain at its core the essence of photography, mind you, not video... It seems lost on many but the UX re-conceptualisation is one that many companies have taken a lot of study in and I am glad Leica appears to be on the forefront of that. Shrinking the number of buttons and designing a shallow, simplified menu system are all steps in the right direction and from the interview with them, they are clearly not done yet and want to reduce even more. Sony is perhaps the worse in the industry today with just tossing everything in mind without a thought on usability or ease of visualisation. I don't think there are many people who "don't get it". I do think there are some who don't think Leica are implementing it in quite the way they would like. If it were truly a pursuit of nothing but the essential, why would they contemplate auto-ISO, re-introducing an electronic level in the next firmware, "favourite" menu settings, auto exposure and so on? They do so because people want these things. It comes down to what we consider essential, necessary and desirable. It's not a question of getting it or not getting it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Spencer Posted February 27, 2017 Share #271 Posted February 27, 2017 I don't think there are many people who "don't get it". I do think there are some who don't think Leica are implementing it in quite the way they would like. If it were truly a pursuit of nothing but the essential, why would they contemplate auto-ISO, re-introducing an electronic level in the next firmware, "favourite" menu settings, auto exposure and so on? They do so because people want these things. It comes down to what we consider essential, necessary and desirable. It's not a question of getting it or not getting it. Peter, I think things like auto-ISO and auto exposure are there not just because people want them, but because they let the photographer focus on the essentials of photography: composition, lighting, capturing the moment. I think the das wesentliche approach is about allowing people to focus on the essential elements of shooting in this way and having the favourites menu also can allow people to focus less on camera settings and on more on shooting. Does this mean that Leica should never add video? Not necessarily, but I think it means that if video is added, then it should be added in a way that allows those shooting video to focus not the essentials of shooting video and the M240 video was far from that. If video can be implemented in a way that follows this das wesentliche philosophy then I don't think it will be an issue for most people, especially if Leica still offers a stills only camera, but if they offer video in a way that utilizing it makes it hard to focus on the essentials, then I don't think offering such video fits the Leica way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted February 27, 2017 Share #272 Posted February 27, 2017 Peter, I think things like auto-ISO and auto exposure are there not just because people want them, but because they let the photographer focus on the essentials of photography: composition, lighting, capturing the moment. I think the das wesentliche approach is about allowing people to focus on the essential elements of shooting in this way and having the favourites menu also can allow people to focus less on camera settings and on more on shooting. Does this mean that Leica should never add video? Not necessarily, but I think it means that if video is added, then it should be added in a way that allows those shooting video to focus not the essentials of shooting video and the M240 video was far from that. If video can be implemented in a way that follows this das wesentliche philosophy then I don't think it will be an issue for most people, especially if Leica still offers a stills only camera, but if they offer video in a way that utilizing it makes it hard to focus on the essentials, then I don't think offering such video fits the Leica way.But you are choosing the things that you believe allow you to concentrate on what you believe are the essentials. I happen to share your views but plenty don't. Some people find that autofocus is the most important aid to concentrating on the essentials. Others believe that the rear screen is an unnecessary and vulnerable ornament, others eschew colour altogether. Leica does a good job of catering to these different priorities, and one of the best things about the Ms is that they are not encumbered with too many features and complications. But I think we sometimes get carried away with the marketing language and start to believe things that are not quite true. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted February 28, 2017 Share #273 Posted February 28, 2017 I agree I think the other thing is that the M10 is great if its feature list meets your wants The issue is that the M240 is simply so good and reliable The M8 introduced digital, the M9 introduced FF and the M240 introduced reliability, battery life and LV (more then the sum of the parts) The thing is that we expect each generation to introduce something significantly different and expectations are suitably high after the M240 The M10 does introduce wifi, which is great, and better ISO performance (minor for shooters like me) but nothing significant IMHO That doesn't mean I won't buy one at some point, it just means that I don't feel this rush of adrenaline to want it like I did for the other key digital M generation changes. Which is why I think there must be a M240 successor in the wings, even its further away then the next few months Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted February 28, 2017 Share #274 Posted February 28, 2017 I have fully accepted moving on now. The only Leica I will buy in future is a full featured M Typ 240 successor. But there are so many other amazing options these days so I'm not sure how long I will wait. I've even found solutions to the reasons I have chosen and wanted to use the system that I believed were quite unique. It is still a mystery to me why a company would choose to recede their market and drive their long time customers away. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 28, 2017 Share #275 Posted February 28, 2017 I fully agree, Paul. I will stick with some M bodies to use with the lenses that are unique on M, like the Summiluxes 24 and 50 and the Super-Elmar 18, still in doubt which bodies, either MM1 and M9 or MM1 and M240, but for the rest I am moving on as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlindstrom Posted February 28, 2017 Share #276 Posted February 28, 2017 ^ Jaap: so what's your future directio, SL or other brand? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Mandeville Posted February 28, 2017 Share #277 Posted February 28, 2017 I have fully accepted moving on now. The only Leica I will buy in future is a full featured M Typ 240 successor. And it's always possible (but not probable) they will make a one, just for buyers like you. Though, I don't know why you wouldn't consider the SL, as it seems like more the type of camera you are looking for. Or is it that you absolutely must have the rangefinder experience along with full featured video? If that's the case, you may very well be disappointed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Mandeville Posted February 28, 2017 Share #278 Posted February 28, 2017 I fully agree, Paul. I will stick with some M bodies to use with the lenses that are unique on M, like the Summiluxes 24 and 50 and the Super-Elmar 18, still in doubt which bodies, either MM1 and M9 or MM1 and M240, but for the rest I am moving on as well. Wait a minute. You're leaving Leica because they took video out of the M line, but you can't decide whether to keep the M9 or the M240? That makes no sense whatsoever. If you're satisfied with the M9, why wouldn't you be satisfied with the M10? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted February 28, 2017 Share #279 Posted February 28, 2017 And it's always possible (but not probable) they will make a one, just for buyers like you. Though, I don't know why you wouldn't consider the SL, as it seems like more the type of camera you are looking for. Or is it that you absolutely must have the rangefinder experience along with full featured video? If that's the case, you may very well be disappointed. Is a "rangefinder experience" much different from a "photography experience" or a "telephoto lens experience"? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 28, 2017 Share #280 Posted February 28, 2017 Because my new system will take over the relevant features of the M240. The only rreason I upgraded to the M240 was because of the EVF, LV and video. So it will be made redundant. The only reason to hang on to it would be that I find it a nice camera. OTOH the M9 will be ample for my needs and matches well with the MM1. Which shows that I am not "leaving Leica" BTW. I am only getting out of the M upgrade cycle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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