2nd imperssions - M10

[ELAN]

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I’ve had the M10 for two weeks now, used it every day, in different lighting conditions and with four different lenses (the current Summilux 28/35/50 and the new 28 Summaron).  I have taken 2137 photographs and charged the battery seven times.  The following are my impressions after two weeks with the camera.

The good:

The smaller body is lovely to handle.  Perhaps not as perfect as the film MP, but close to it.

Easier focusing is by far my favorite improvement. Focus seems to fall into place perfectly almost every time, while the M240 makes me strain to achieve perfect focus. With the M10 I concentrate less on focusing and more on photography.

I don't see the viewfinder improvements. The area outside the framelines looks the same and eye relief seems the same. Peaking to the corners I can see more beyond the corners but looking straight I see the same as I do with the M240. That being said, the viewfinder is a joy to look through so there are improvements my subconscious is picking up.

Colors are different, not yet sure if it's better or worse than the M240.  In some lighting the colors are more subdued while in others the colors seem more saturated than the M240.  Overall I like the colors. 

 

The M10 files need less PP than the M240 files and can be pushed much farther when needed (more shadows can be lifted and exposure can be pushed father with less ill effects).

Auto White Balance is improved, I hardly need to adjust WB in PP, although it does bounce around at times.  For example, yesterday I took six captures of the same scene within two minutes in constant light.  All images had a temperature of 4850, only the 3rd image had a temperature of 5800.  I’ve seen this a few times already.

ISO 6400 looks as good as 1600 from the M240.  Having the 2 extra stops is very helpful.  My Auto-ISO Max is set to 6400, M is set to 12,500, and I have yet to reject a photo for excessive noise or banding or deformed colors.

The not so good:

The M10 battery sucks!  436 shots is the most I got on a full charge, RF usage only, review off and a little chimping. My M240-P gives well over 1000 shots with similar usage.

The aperture guesstimate needs to come back. At least provide an option to turn it on, the camera has the data.

The split level also needs to come back!

The Wi-fi features are great in concept but the implementation isn't fully cooked yet. It all works, but it also makes you work for it.  And the battery drain makes it impractical for meaningful sessions.

The M10 forced me to upgrade from LR 5.7 to LR 6.8, which is much much slower than 5.7.  Not Leica’s fault, but still, PP M10 files with the slow LR 6.8 is so frustrating (this on a latest fully spec’d out MacBook Pro).

In conclusion:

The better focusing alone was worth the price of admission. The other improvements may seem minor, but taken together they add up to a significantly improved camera.  I love the M10.
 

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[digitalfx]

 

The M10 forced me to upgrade from LR 5.7 to LR 6.8, which is much much slower than 5.7.  Not Leica’s fault, but still, PP M10 files with the slow LR 6.8 is so frustrating (this on a latest fully spec’d out MacBook Pro).

 

 

 

 

Nice summary...you failed to mention speed...for me this is one of the top improvements. 

 

Regarding LR...unfortunately this is the case with any new camera. Upgrading is inevitable.

But the speed difference you are experiencing doesn't sound right. I have no speed issues with LR 6.8...are you sure you don't have an issue with your install? You might try doing a clean install starting with 6.0 then upgrading to 6.8 to see if that resolves your issues.

[ELAN]

Nice summary...you failed to mention speed...for me this is one of the top improvements. 

 

Regarding LR...unfortunately this is the case with any new camera. Upgrading is inevitable.

But the speed difference you are experiencing doesn't sound right. I have no speed issues with LR 6.8...are you sure you don't have an issue with your install? You might try doing a clean install starting with 6.0 then upgrading to 6.8 to see if that resolves your issues.

 

Thanks.  I never found the M240 slow so I don't notice things being much faster.

 

As for LR, it did install 6.0 fresh.  It upgraded the 5.7 catalog and then updated to 6.8.  Googling "Lightroom 6 slow" yields many many angry complaints with no resolution.  I spent half a day on it.  The only recommendation was to increase the cache, which I did from the default 1 GB to 25 GB.  This helped a little, but still LR is so very slow, even moving from image to image.

[skanga]

I’ve had the M10 for two weeks now, used it every day, in different lighting conditions and with four different lenses (the current Summilux 28/35/50 and the new 28 Summaron).  I have taken 2137 photographs and charged the battery seven times.  The following are my impressions after two weeks with the camera.

 

The good:

 

The smaller body is lovely to handle.  Perhaps not as perfect as the film MP, but close to it.

 

Easier focusing is by far my favorite improvement. Focus seems to fall into place perfectly almost every time, while the M240 makes me strain to achieve perfect focus. With the M10 I concentrate less on focusing and more on photography.

 

I don't see the viewfinder improvements. The area outside the framelines looks the same and eye relief seems the same. Peaking to the corners I can see more beyond the corners but looking straight I see the same as I do with the M240. That being said, the viewfinder is a joy to look through so there are improvements my subconscious is picking up.

 

Colors are different, not yet sure if it's better or worse than the M240.  In some lighting the colors are more subdued while in others the colors seem more saturated than the M240.  Overall I like the colors. 

 

The M10 files need less PP than the M240 files and can be pushed much farther when needed (more shadows can be lifted and exposure can be pushed father with less ill effects).

 

Auto White Balance is improved, I hardly need to adjust WB in PP, although it does bounce around at times.  For example, yesterday I took six captures of the same scene within two minutes in constant light.  All images had a temperature of 4850, only the 3rd image had a temperature of 5800.  I’ve seen this a few times already.

 

ISO 6400 looks as good as 1600 from the M240.  Having the 2 extra stops is very helpful.  My Auto-ISO Max is set to 6400, M is set to 12,500, and I have yet to reject a photo for excessive noise or banding or deformed colors.

 

The not so good:

 

The M10 battery sucks!  436 shots is the most I got on a full charge, RF usage only, review off and a little chimping. My M240-P gives well over 1000 shots with similar usage.

 

The aperture guesstimate needs to come back. At least provide an option to turn it on, the camera has the data.

 

The split level also needs to come back!

 

The Wi-fi features are great in concept but the implementation isn't fully cooked yet. It all works, but it also makes you work for it.  And the battery drain makes it impractical for meaningful sessions.

 

The M10 forced me to upgrade from LR 5.7 to LR 6.8, which is much much slower than 5.7.  Not Leica’s fault, but still, PP M10 files with the slow LR 6.8 is so frustrating (this on a latest fully spec’d out MacBook Pro).

 

In conclusion:

 

The better focusing alone was worth the price of admission. The other improvements may seem minor, but taken together they add up to a significantly improved camera.  I love the M10.

 

 

Hi Elan, Nice to read read your impressions after more than 2000 exposures. I am very interested in this camera. Could you post 1 or 2 of your favourites if possible? Thanks

[ELAN]

...Could you post 1 or 2 of your favourites if possible?

 

I posted an image a couple of days ago on the pinned Image thread.  See page 11 post 206.  I will post some more later.

[Rick]

 

The not so good:

 

The M10 battery sucks!  436 shots is the most I got on a full charge, RF usage only, review off and a little chimping. My M240-P gives well over 1000 shots with similar usage.

 

 

Nice review.

 

I understand everybody is different in how they shoot and how much the review and use the EVF.  My M9 I would easily out shoot the battery.  The M240 was Canon 5DII-like in capacity.  The M10 is somewhere in between.  

 

I find the capacity gets me through a day easily.  I suppose on vacation wandering around Europe I would need a second. 

 

But, 1000 shots in a day, assuming 8/hrs of shooting and a lunch or sit down - would be 2.4 Photos per minute!  I just don't have that kind of expectation, for me.  Totally understand we are different.  But, I don't believe I could keep up with you.   

 

Rick

[ELAN]

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I rarely shoot 1000 exposures in a day, but I do often shoot 500 or more, which I can't do anymore on a single M10 battery. With the M240 I never worried about the battery, I often left home with a 40% charge and never gave a second thought to running out or taking a spare. With the M10 I now worry about the battery and I hate it. Today I shot 53 frames in three hours, but I was composing much of the time waiting for the moment and the camera hardly slept. The battery was down to 60% when I got home. I just want what I had with the M240, is that too much to ask for?

[digitalfx]

As for LR, it did install 6.0 fresh.  It upgraded the 5.7 catalog and then updated to 6.8.  Googling "Lightroom 6 slow" yields many many angry complaints with no resolution.  I spent half a day on it.  The only recommendation was to increase the cache, which I did from the default 1 GB to 25 GB.  This helped a little, but still LR is so very slow, even moving from image to image.

 

 

Yes LR 6.0 had issues but were quickly resolved with an update. If you are on 6.8 you shouldn't have issues.

For me 6.8 is pretty instantaneous...what issues are you experiencing?

 

 

 

[ELAN]

Yes LR 6.0 had issues but were quickly resolved with an update. If you are on 6.8 you shouldn't have issues.

For me 6.8 is pretty instantaneous...what issues are you experiencing?

General sluggishness. Scrolling photos in Develop is slow, clicking the crop icon takes 2 seconds to respond, etc. The machine runs quite hot with LR open, even when idle, which is all consistent with the reported memory leaks. Restarting LR improves things a bit but not for long. I'm encouraged that it works fine for you, which machine are you on?

[jmahto]

I rarely shoot 1000 exposures in a day, but I do often shoot 500 or more, which I can't do anymore on a single M10 battery. With the M240 I never worried about the battery, I often left home with a 40% charge and never gave a second thought to running out or taking a spare. With the M10 I now worry about the battery and I hate it. Today I shot 53 frames in three hours, but I was composing much of the time waiting for the moment and the camera hardly slept. The battery was down to 60% when I got home. I just want what I had with the M240, is that too much to ask for?

For me M240 is my backpacking camera and sometimes I am out for multiple days. I also shoot timelapse for stars (I even tried manually shooting clouds timelapse with success). With M240 I carry a spare and have no issues for 4-5 days without any recharging. This is my main concern with M10 (the sensor is tempting though).

 

I do understand that if you start your day with full charge then there is no issue for whole day. After all, I used M9 for couple of years with just one extra battery. However M240 batterylife has spoiled me.

[FrankX]

General sluggishness. Scrolling photos in Develop is slow, clicking the crop icon takes 2 seconds to respond, etc. The machine runs quite hot with LR open, even when idle, which is all consistent with the reported memory leaks. Restarting LR improves things a bit but not for long. I'm encouraged that it works fine for you, which machine are you on?

Did you already try to uncheck the new 'graphics card acceleration' feature? This feature really slows down every MacBook...

[Rick]

I rarely shoot 1000 exposures in a day, but I do often shoot 500 or more, which I can't do anymore on a single M10 battery. With the M240 I never worried about the battery, I often left home with a 40% charge and never gave a second thought to running out or taking a spare. With the M10 I now worry about the battery and I hate it. Today I shot 53 frames in three hours, but I was composing much of the time waiting for the moment and the camera hardly slept. The battery was down to 60% when I got home. I just want what I had with the M240, is that too much to ask for?

 

 

I do agree with that.  I would take the M240 out with only 40% charge all the time.  With the M10 I would only do that if I knew I was going to shoot for a partial day.

 

As far as asking for a capacity of the M240, that would require a bigger battery which would mean a bigger Camera.  I believe Leica must be a bit frustrated to hear this.  The history of the M digital goes like this.  M9 users wanted more capacity.  Leica provided this with, as you mention, the fantastic 1000 shot capability of the M240... and users complained about weight.  Then, M240 users wanted a smaller lighter camera.  Leica delivers the M10... and some users are already complaining about capacity of the smaller camera and battery.

 

I understand your point of view and respect it.  My choice would be the M10 and carry an extra battery, just me of course.

 

Rick

 

p.s. Having the M10 for exactly 2 weeks I find my shooting habits have settled into shooting with 2 minute power savings.  The camera wakes up fast enough for me so, I save a lot of power this way.  I'm not chimping much now.  Finally, I don't use the menus in this camera much.  Just shooting is giving me much more capacity.  Understand, it isn't 1000 shots.

[ELAN]

I too set 2 min power savings on my Ms and my shooting style is similar to yours. I basically use my M as an M-D. Sometimes I chimp

 

Yes, I can understand Leica's frustration with the battery complaints. But Lieca can do better. The M10 battery is one third smaller than the M240 battery, yet its performance is down more than 50%. I suspect the new processor/sensor are power hungry, or perhaps the firmware hasn't been fully tweaked yet. Whatever, I need more juice!

[Budfox]

I am not certain why you say the viewfinder is the same, but focusing much improved? I thought the larger viewfinder was the reason for improved focusing.

[ELAN]

Focusing is probably improved by a finer rangefinder mechanism and improved patch contrast. I don't really know. The viewfinder framelines and relief appear the same to me but the overall view out of the viewfinder feels nicer. The .73 magnification probably has something to do with it.

[Cliff S]

By adding a +0.5 diopter if using glasses, the focus patch becomes even sharper. I focus as well or better than live view across my whole range of glass.

[digitalfx]

General sluggishness. Scrolling photos in Develop is slow, clicking the crop icon takes 2 seconds to respond, etc. The machine runs quite hot with LR open, even when idle, which is all consistent with the reported memory leaks. Restarting LR improves things a bit but not for long. I'm encouraged that it works fine for you, which machine are you on?

 

 

Interesting...I don't experience this.

How much RAM do you have?

 

When I click crop, it instantly enters crop mode.

Scrolling in Develop module is not instantaneous...but its less than a 1/2 second between images....more like 1/4 second, not really enough lag that I ever noticed.

I rarely hear the fan run when in LR.

 

what version of OSX?

 

Im on 2016 MBP with Sierra...but had similar results with late 2014 model and prior OSX.

[cookedart]

I do agree with that.  I would take the M240 out with only 40% charge all the time.  With the M10 I would only do that if I knew I was going to shoot for a partial day.

 

As far as asking for a capacity of the M240, that would require a bigger battery which would mean a bigger Camera.  I believe Leica must be a bit frustrated to hear this.  The history of the M digital goes like this.  M9 users wanted more capacity.  Leica provided this with, as you mention, the fantastic 1000 shot capability of the M240... and users complained about weight.  Then, M240 users wanted a smaller lighter camera.  Leica delivers the M10... and some users are already complaining about capacity of the smaller camera and battery.

 

I understand your point of view and respect it.  My choice would be the M10 and carry an extra battery, just me of course.

 

Rick

 

p.s. Having the M10 for exactly 2 weeks I find my shooting habits have settled into shooting with 2 minute power savings.  The camera wakes up fast enough for me so, I save a lot of power this way.  I'm not chimping much now.  Finally, I don't use the menus in this camera much.  Just shooting is giving me much more capacity.  Understand, it isn't 1000 shots.

 

The Leica M240 battery could physically fit inside the M10's body, if the SD card were not in the position its in. Of course, it's not like there's any room to spare inside the camera either way. But it is definitely sad, as battery life is the one major negative of the M10 in my eyes. Also, the fact that spare batteries are not really available right now accentuates this.

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[johnbuckley]

I agree with several things mentioned in this good and helpful write up. After nearly three weeks of shooting, I too don't really notice a difference in the viewfinder. It just works. As did the M240.

 

I'm finding a slowness issue with LR -- I think it takes me less time to focus in the field than my souped up Mac and LR6.8 take to bring an image into perfect focus. I didn't notice that with the M240, though I also do with the SL, come to think of it. Serious question: could the precision of focusing a Summilux or Summicron image wide open tax the computer?

 

While it makes me nervous to go out with one battery - and as we all know, The Great M10 Backup Battery Void must be the reason the CEO was let go - I think I am getting more life from mine than ELAN is from his. I've shot 200-300 images at a time, and never had less than 65% battery life when returning. I think that's pretty good, and it's consistent, which eases the mind.

[Rick]

The Leica M240 battery could physically fit inside the M10's body, if the SD card were not in the position its in. Of course, it's not like there's any room to spare inside the camera either way. But it is definitely sad, as battery life is the one major negative of the M10 in my eyes. Also, the fact that spare batteries are not really available right now accentuates this.

 

 

Interviews with Jesko and Daniel have revealed that Leica basically made everything inside the M10 from scratch to make it smaller and better.  Maybe, in the future the battery can be bigger and the power consumption can be reduced.  I believe Leica did everything they could do.  I'm happy.    

Rick