Paulus Posted February 14, 2017 Author Share #161 Posted February 14, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) What he means by "naked" is that he uses the camera without a case. I have never put a case on my M cameras...try it you might like it. I tried it for 6 years. Then I bought a ever ready case for my M6 . I really liked it. Bought a half case for an M9 and an M 240 . Feels good to me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 Hi Paulus, Take a look here M 11 will be around in less than 4 years. The speculations and facts.. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Paulus Posted February 14, 2017 Author Share #162 Posted February 14, 2017 Can you elaborate on what those advantages are? http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/268919-m-11-will-be-around-in-less-than-4-years-the-speculations-and-facts/?p=3211415 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted February 14, 2017 Share #163 Posted February 14, 2017 http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/268919-m-11-will-be-around-in-less-than-4-years-the-speculations-and-facts/?p=3211415 Syaing 'I like the baseplate" isn't an advantage. That's just an opinion. An advantage would be "I can change the battery at the same time I take out the SD card". 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted February 14, 2017 Share #164 Posted February 14, 2017 I like the SL battery arrangement. Water resistant, secure plus very easy and super quick to change a battery. My brother who seems to change his preferred digital camera every month, was commenting that the SL had the neatest battery change mechanism he had seen on any camera. No need to re-invent the wheel for the M11. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted February 14, 2017 Share #165 Posted February 14, 2017 Can you elaborate on what those advantages are? I can only think of one practical advantage. A removable and therefore easily exchangeable baseplate protects the bottom and bottom-edges of the camera from cosmetic and minor damage. Some people do care about scratches and also worry about resale value, so it may be a good thing for them. It may also save a few users who yearn for the thinnest body possible from having to resort to bulking up with a half-case for protective purposes. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianman Posted February 14, 2017 Share #166 Posted February 14, 2017 It's not a camera build for speed ... This is a fact that cannot be overstated ... and yet seems to be missed by many. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted February 14, 2017 Share #167 Posted February 14, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) This is a fact that cannot be overstated ... and yet seems to be missed by many. I disagree. Set up correctly they are wonderfully rapid, and are designed to be so. In most circumstances I'd rather rely on an M than a DSLR for catching a fleeting expression on someone's face. Wouldn't you? Mind you, I might miss a few if I was in the middle of changing the battery! 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soden Posted February 14, 2017 Share #168 Posted February 14, 2017 GPS that works in all countries, like the T/TL Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted February 14, 2017 Share #169 Posted February 14, 2017 I would say the M is a very instantaneous camera, one of the reasons I love using it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted February 14, 2017 Author Share #170 Posted February 14, 2017 Syaing 'I like the baseplate" isn't an advantage. That's just an opinion. An advantage would be "I can change the battery at the same time I take out the SD card". http://www.l-camera-...acts/?p=3211415 It's solid, secure, weatherproof, nostalgic and pretty quick on and off, more so on the M10 was the rest of the sentence. Don't give " alternative facts " . Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted February 14, 2017 Share #171 Posted February 14, 2017 http://www.l-camera-...acts/?p=3211415 It's solid, secure, weatherproof, nostalgic and pretty quick on and off, more so on the M10 was the rest of the sentence. Don't give " alternative facts " . "Solid, secure and weatherproof" is hardly an advantage of a removable baseplate - the same would apply if it was fixed. Nostalgic is hardly an advantage, it's an opinion. Quick on and off? To what purpose? I can change SD cards and battery on my SL before I've got the baseplate off an M camera. Look, I get it that people like it for nostalgia - if you get rid of the baseplate, what else might get changed? But it really serves no purpose on a digital camera that could not be managed more effectively and elegantly. Is there another modern camera where a piece of the body has to be completely removed in this way? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookedart Posted February 14, 2017 Share #172 Posted February 14, 2017 My thoughts on where to go with a future M: More practical considerations: - Electronic shutter. Fully silent shutter with no vibration on an M just makes sense to me. - Figure out a way that we can shoot with different metering modes with the rangefinder (having the shutter open and sensor exposed - maybe a low power mode for the sensor that can just do metering?). The shutter blade center weighted metering is pretty archaic and is too easily fooled with point light sources at night. - Figure out how to make the camera lighter. Personally, I'd prefer the M11 be Aluminium top and bottom covers, gorilla glass, and a red dot logo, and release the M11-P at the same time with Brass top and bottom plates, sapphire glass, and without the red dot (for the traditionalists). - Release an optional bottom plate that has a more traditional battery/card door. Of course this needs good weather sealing as well. - Focus the M's sensor on high performance in any light, not resolution. 24MP is good, I think. ISO 50 would be welcome. Also, banding free at all ISOs. - Return of the 1/8000 sec shutter - USB charging of battery within the camera. - Half stops for the ISO dial. - Figure out how to fit the BP-SCL2 (M240) battery inside the M with the M10's size. (Its physically possible, but the SD card location prevents this). - Possibly add a small, circular OLED or E-ink display (similar to M8), for battery remaining info, as well as info for the exposure compensation selected. Leave the Exposure compensation as a software dial. This could also be where a GPS antenna could go. Less practical but I still want it: - Release ROM M Mount lenses with full weather sealing (including at the mount). Full weather sealing in the digital M system is overdue. At the very least the ROM lenses could report the chosen aperture to the body. At most they could control the aperture blades so we could have full program or shutter priority modes. Of course this would have to be done with the minimal of size increases. - On Sensor Image Stabilization. The M is a handheld platform. - Hybrid viewfinder. At the very least, integrate a high contrast OLED panel instead of the frameline masks. That way the frameline pairs and shooting info could be fully customizable. You could in theory link the frameline optimization to focus distance, too. If they perfect this then maybe we can eventually have a dream of an optional, integrated EVF (a la the X100 or XPro series) eventually. - Touchscreen, tilt screen. Some probably wouldn't want this but I do. If not a tilt screen, get rid of of the bezel and protrusion of the fixed LCD. Try to move the LCD and buttons as far left as possible to get the four way controller in a nicer spot for the thumb. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahto Posted February 14, 2017 Share #173 Posted February 14, 2017 This is a fact that cannot be overstated ... and yet seems to be missed by many. But I never miss... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicauser7 Posted February 15, 2017 Share #174 Posted February 15, 2017 NO VIDEO!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted February 15, 2017 Author Share #175 Posted February 15, 2017 "Solid, secure and weatherproof" is hardly an advantage of a removable baseplate - the same would apply if it was fixed. Nostalgic is hardly an advantage, it's an opinion. Quick on and off? To what purpose? I can change SD cards and battery on my SL before I've got the baseplate off an M camera. Look, I get it that people like it for nostalgia - if you get rid of the baseplate, what else might get changed? But it really serves no purpose on a digital camera that could not be managed more effectively and elegantly. Is there another modern camera where a piece of the body has to be completely removed in this way? I think " elegantly " is the magic word. The plate looks and feels elegant. No extras simple, but a little complex for some people. Not to me and a lot of others. That no other brand has is it, is no argument. How many brands still have a " Messsucher " ? Put in a large card and battery and you have less problems. You can change your stuff in the evening after a satisfying day while cleaning the dust, moist, grease, sand from your camera. That's how I see it. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted February 15, 2017 Share #176 Posted February 15, 2017 GPS that works in all countries, like the T/TL ......and that you don't have to bolt a humgeous handle on the bottom to get. The SL GPS is a whole lot better than the M240's and gets a fix fairly quickly. The M240 can take over 5 minutes to get a lock and then in cities with any obscuration of the skyline, loses that lock almost immediately. In fact my wife's old V-Lux 20 has better GPS than the M240. For both my last two long trips, I used the SL and when cataloguing the images, it was so easy in Capture One, where the information tab for each image has a hot link to Google Maps from the latitude and longitude EXIF, to find exactly where some of the 1000+ images I took on each trip was. I did a short trip to Berlin before Xmas using the M240. I have GPS data on less than 25% of the images. Wilson 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soden Posted February 15, 2017 Share #177 Posted February 15, 2017 ......and that you don't have to bolt a humgeous handle on the bottom to get. The SL GPS is a whole lot better than the M240's and gets a fix fairly quickly. The M240 can take over 5 minutes to get a lock and then in cities with any obscuration of the skyline, loses that lock almost immediately. In fact my wife's old V-Lux 20 has better GPS than the M240. For both my last two long trips, I used the SL and when cataloguing the images, it was so easy in Capture One, where the information tab for each image has a hot link to Google Maps from the latitude and longitude EXIF, to find exactly where some of the 1000+ images I took on each trip was. I did a short trip to Berlin before Xmas using the M240. I have GPS data on less than 25% of the images. Wilson Well, if you want to bring the M240 into it. I live in China. But I spent the summer in America and the M240 never figured it out. Two months I spent in California, Michigan or Texas and I have zero pictures with GPS. Always the camera would say GPS is disabled for legal reasons. What legal reasons? GPS is common in China, even foreign products, like the Leica T/TL. Customs and immigration does not distinguish between the T/TL and the M. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianman Posted February 15, 2017 Share #178 Posted February 15, 2017 I disagree. Set up correctly they are wonderfully rapid, and are designed to be so. In most circumstances I'd rather rely on an M than a DSLR for catching a fleeting expression on someone's face. Wouldn't you? Of course. Nobody said they can't be very fast. Somebody did write that they are not built for speed. Big difference. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted February 15, 2017 Share #179 Posted February 15, 2017 Well, if you want to bring the M240 into it. I live in China. But I spent the summer in America and the M240 never figured it out. Two months I spent in California, Michigan or Texas and I have zero pictures with GPS. Always the camera would say GPS is disabled for legal reasons. What legal reasons? GPS is common in China, even foreign products, like the Leica T/TL. Customs and immigration does not distinguish between the T/TL and the M. I was in Myanmar last November on a Classic Car rally which started in the far north east of the country near the Chinese border. Even my SL was not connecting to GPS in this area but started up as we got further south and west. It would seem Leica have an ultra cautious approach to GPS anywhere even near the PRC. I know my wife's V-Lux 20 also had its GPS disabled on her visit to the PRC and a message popped up on the LCD, if you tried to switch GPS to on, saying that for legal reasons, it was disabled. Now that every smart phone has GPS, I suspect this is an old rule, which is not obeyed any more by most makers, so really it is time that Leica removed this restriction with firmware updates to the various GPS enabled cameras. Wilson 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soden Posted February 15, 2017 Share #180 Posted February 15, 2017 (edited) I was in Myanmar last November on a Classic Car rally which started in the far north east of the country near the Chinese border. Even my SL was not connecting to GPS in this area but started up as we got further south and west. It would seem Leica have an ultra cautious approach to GPS anywhere even near the PRC. I know my wife's V-Lux 20 also had its GPS disabled on her visit to the PRC and a message popped up on the LCD, if you tried to switch GPS to on, saying that for legal reasons, it was disabled. Now that every smart phone has GPS, I suspect this is an old rule, which is not obeyed any more by most makers, so really it is time that Leica removed this restriction with firmware updates to the various GPS enabled cameras. Wilson I can see them being cautious near the people's republic of Berkeley, but in Texas? Them's fight'n words! But yes, a simple firmware update would fix it, with the understanding that Leica's customers are adults and responsible for there own stupidity, just like their wifi disclaimer. To be honest, I'd buy the M10 in a heartbeat if leica would allow GPS universally. But as such it doesn't matter and I'll wait for a camera that's more than a marginal upgrade. Edited February 15, 2017 by Soden Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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