dkmoore Posted February 8, 2020 Share #961 Posted February 8, 2020 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) 2 hours ago, Kwesi said: I actually love the 28 but I must admit my favorite way of shooting it is with the Leica 21 Brightline finder( thanks to the built in 28 frame lines). Makes for a "roomy" view. 😀 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! This seems like a lot of extra work considering the rangefinder has 28mm frame lines and the eye relief is the best yet, making it easier to view. I guess if you are mostly using a tripod this makes a little more sense. looks kind of cool though. Edited February 8, 2020 by dkmoore Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 8, 2020 Posted February 8, 2020 Hi dkmoore, Take a look here M 11 will be around in less than 4 years. The speculations and facts.. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Kwesi Posted February 8, 2020 Share #962 Posted February 8, 2020 43 minutes ago, dkmoore said: This seems like a lot of extra work considering the rangefinder has 28mm frame lines and the eye relief is the best yet, making it easier to view. I guess if you are mostly using a tripod this makes a little more sense. looks kind of cool though. I originally bought the finder to use with the 21 SEM but soon realized how useful it was with the 28. Its actually quite fast to focus with the RF and compose with the finder. The 28 is such a joy to use though that with the M246. I would often shoot from the hip. http://www.infoyin.com/street/e0xen8y00opy04npewbo39in1fjdi1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkmoore Posted February 8, 2020 Share #963 Posted February 8, 2020 1 hour ago, Kwesi said: I originally bought the finder to use with the 21 SEM but soon realized how useful it was with the 28. Its actually quite fast to focus with the RF and compose with the finder. The 28 is such a joy to use though that with the M246. I would often shoot from the hip. http://www.infoyin.com/street/e0xen8y00opy04npewbo39in1fjdi1 I’ve tried “shooting from the hip” many times using zone focusing and have never been satisfied. Fully admit this is my own opinion and probably fueled by OCD but the results have never been in my control. If I want slightly blurry I want control. If I want super sharp I want my control. Obviously sometimes you get something you didn’t aim for that works but that to me should be the exception, not the rule. And for me, zone focusing is to loose. But, that doesn’t mean I am right at all. Just friendly conversation and I appreciate your willingness to participate. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkmoore Posted February 8, 2020 Share #964 Posted February 8, 2020 1 hour ago, Kwesi said: I originally bought the finder to use with the 21 SEM but soon realized how useful it was with the 28. Its actually quite fast to focus with the RF and compose with the finder. The 28 is such a joy to use though that with the M246. I would often shoot from the hip. http://www.infoyin.com/street/e0xen8y00opy04npewbo39in1fjdi1 Also, nice results in your link! Many post opinion without sharing examples but I appreciate the examples and clearly you figured out how to make it work. That’s what makes art so enjoyable. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted February 8, 2020 Share #965 Posted February 8, 2020 On 2/7/2020 at 6:06 AM, magixaxeman said: As has been pointed out before if you take the rangefinder off an M camera and replace it with an EVF it ceases to be an "M" camera as the M stands for "Messuchur" German for rangefinder, It then becomes an EVF Mirrorless Camera or as the Japanese refer to it Fuji. Very true. So what is your point? Call it a P, an E. Actually, call it what you want if it makes you feel better, but there really is a place for a camera with the same form factor, same sensor, same mount (Ooooo, don’t call it M, blasphemy) and an EVF, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 8, 2020 Share #966 Posted February 8, 2020 What's an M? An M mount Leica. Simple . 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 8, 2020 Share #967 Posted February 8, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) 4 hours ago, IkarusJohn said: Very true. So what is your point? Call it a P, an E. Actually, call it what you want if it makes you feel better, but there really is a place for a camera with the same form factor, same sensor, same mount (Ooooo, don’t call it M, blasphemy) and an EVF, Not a blasphemy, John. Yes, indeed, call it something else, no problem. The rangefinder M camera is the Gestalt of the Leica brand and thus at the core of their marketing image. So it would be essential to rename such a camera without a Messucher. Too many of Leica's customers understand German and are astute enough to see that an M mount is the mount of a rangefinder camera. So, by all means, call it an L-M or Leica N-E or whatever. A rose by any other name. Only in this case it would be a Chrysanthemum. Which brings us to the question of the potential demand for such a camera. Yes, Leica might well sell a few dozen, maybe even more to members of this forum. But I am sure that their market research extends to the camera market as a whole. They have to ask themselves what the demand would be for a mirrorless camera with a severely limited functionality and the need to buy (for a non-Leica owner) a set of outrageously expensive lenses in the face of fierce competition. As a company, it would be a heroic, some would say foolhardy, decision to spend considerable time, resources and R&D budget on such a project. It is a whole lot simpler to create a M-like camera with an L mount - which Leica has declared to be the core of their future developments- and an advanced M adapter that would emulate an M camera completely by not only adapting the lens mount, but switching off all the extra camera functions the L mount brings - not to forget killing off Video too. Even sell an expensive Red-Dot tube of Superglue with the adapter for diehards! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 8, 2020 Share #968 Posted February 8, 2020 41 minutes ago, jaapv said: [...] It is a whole lot simpler to create a M-like camera with an L mount - which Leica has declared to be the core of their future developments- and an advanced M adapter that would emulate an M camera completely by not only adapting the lens mount, but switching off all the extra camera functions the L mount brings - not to forget killing off Video too. Even sell an expensive Red-Dot tube of Superglue with the adapter for diehards! So you would want another AF body really? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 8, 2020 Share #969 Posted February 8, 2020 Nothing to do with it - AF or not, it is a lens property. The body can adapt to the lens configuration. It is not what I want - it is what the customers want - one needs customers to sell a product. Personally I would never consider such a bastardized camera. I enjoy my M cameras, I enjoy my EVF cameras of various brands, but something combining the drawbacks of both systems? Thanks but no thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 8, 2020 Share #970 Posted February 8, 2020 19 minutes ago, jaapv said: It is not what I want - it is what the customers want - one needs customers to sell a product. Not sure to follow you here. Why would customers want another AF body? There are the SL, SL2, CL and TL already. Just trying to comprehend your point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 8, 2020 Share #971 Posted February 8, 2020 They don't - but to be able to sell your desired M mount EVF camera, they would need to make it attractive to a larger group of customers - which implies using the L mount and optimized adapter. In essence a full-frame CL or M-styled SL. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 8, 2020 Share #972 Posted February 8, 2020 7 minutes ago, jaapv said: They don't - but to be able to sell your desired M mount EVF camera, they would need to make it attractive to a larger group of customers - which implies using the L mount and optimized adapter. In essence a full-frame CL or M-styled SL. So basically Leica would sell AF bodies to people interested in manual lenses with hope that they will want to buy big L lenses for this compact body soon or late? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 8, 2020 Share #973 Posted February 8, 2020 No - for those customers it would be bundled with the M adapter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 8, 2020 Share #974 Posted February 8, 2020 3 minutes ago, jaapv said: No - for those customers it would be bundled with the M adapter. Then Leica would expect other customers to buy this compact body and mount L lenses on it, right? Just curious again as this scenario sounds incredible to me but marketing is not my cup of tea. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 8, 2020 Share #975 Posted February 8, 2020 A bit incredible to me as well, but with Leica one never knows. However, more credible than an M-mount EVF. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 8, 2020 Share #976 Posted February 8, 2020 16 minutes ago, jaapv said: A bit incredible to me as well, but with Leica one never knows. However, more credible than an M-mount EVF. Why so? There are actual customers for that. Think of Sony and lastly Nikon users interested in M lenses and Kolari clients. Too bad for Kolari but they sell other products and their offer would remain interesting anyway. Let alone RF users whose eyesight is not what it used to be and those who will realize that nailing focus is not that easy with a rangefinder on high rez sensors. Et s'il n'en reste qu'un, je serai celui-là (Victor Hugo) . 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 8, 2020 Share #977 Posted February 8, 2020 There are customers. How many ? 100? 500? Without market research neither you nor I could know. trust Leica there . How much would such a camera cost? 9000$? What Sony user is going to pay that price for a camera without 17 buttons? What failing eyesight Leica user would not rather switch to a used SL or even a CL? And Kolari? The number of cameras they convert is not even a statistical blip... My guess is that is is not even close to economically feasible, but, as I said, only Leica can tell. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 8, 2020 Share #978 Posted February 8, 2020 4 minutes ago, jaapv said: There are customers. How many ? 100? 500? Without market research neither you nor I could know. trust Leica there . How much would such a camera cost? 9000$? What Sony user is going to pay that price for a camera without 17 buttons? What failing eyesight Leica user would not rather switch to a used SL or even a CL? And Kolari? The number of cameras they convert is not even a statistical blip... My guess is that is is not even close to economically feasible, but, as I said, only Leica can tell. Will make more than 0 people interested in an AF body with non-existent adapter for use with manual lenses anyway . Just kidding. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkmoore Posted February 8, 2020 Share #979 Posted February 8, 2020 (edited) maybe I’m missing the boat but for me the absolute only reason I’ve ever had even an inkling of interest in an EVF-M is to eliminate my anxiety over rangefinder adjustment or drift. I can’t think of any other advantage over the OVF at this point of time and technology. (for manual focus & rangefinder which I happen to love) Edited February 8, 2020 by dkmoore 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jankap Posted February 8, 2020 Share #980 Posted February 8, 2020 (edited) In the good old days Leica also offered a minimal camera in a series: If, etc. "picture taking devices" without the top deck (see Leica Wiki). At that time for OVFs only and with estimating the distance. Such a camera would be very small. It would need a Visoflex as an attachment. A Visoflex has the advantage, that it can display more information AND it is adjustable: view from above (landscape, macro, etc.). So why not a Leica T as full frame. PS. Would also be interesting for Safari specialists with long lenses. Lenses, that are not crippled on APS cameras. Edited February 8, 2020 by jankap 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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