Jon Warwick Posted January 29, 2017 Share #21 Posted January 29, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) What would be the main advantage of a mirrorless medium format camera compared to the S? you gain smaller size, the cost are: worse viewfinder with limited DR, probably longer some delay in the EVF, worse C-AF, And what you gain with a smaller camera if you want to put S-size lenses on the camera? Your points are all something I agree with, but with a mirrorless, you could also get 1/2 kilo less weight in the camera body alone + also a more vibration-free (leaf) shutter in the lens, such as on the X1D. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 29, 2017 Posted January 29, 2017 Hi Jon Warwick, Take a look here diglloyd revisits the Leica S2. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
hoppyman Posted January 29, 2017 Share #22 Posted January 29, 2017 The article seems an odd collection of opinion and some illogic too. "From what I hear"! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
albireo_double Posted January 30, 2017 Share #23 Posted January 30, 2017 What would be the main advantage of a mirrorless medium format camera compared to the S? Apart from the smaller size etc that you already mentioned - face detection with eye focus. This doesn't get mentioned often enough but in my experience, is very helpful in any portrait shooting situation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom0511 Posted January 30, 2017 Share #24 Posted January 30, 2017 Face detection and moving around focus points would be the most convincing factors for my use of the camera. Thats one of the reasons why I use the SL more often instead of the S lately (what I never thought I would) But I dont want the camera to be smaller at least as long as there are no smaller lenses available. The body should balance well with the lenses. I also wouldnt want the camera to be slower in speed or AF. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted January 30, 2017 Share #25 Posted January 30, 2017 Looking at the M10, making it smaller removes functionality. No thanks! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
albireo_double Posted January 30, 2017 Share #26 Posted January 30, 2017 The Fuji GFX is smaller than the S and doesn't seem to lack in functionality (apart from native leaf shutter lenses) - quite the opposite... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted January 30, 2017 Share #27 Posted January 30, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) The Fuji GFX is smaller than the S and doesn't seem to lack in functionality (apart from native leaf shutter lenses) - quite the opposite... That is true, good point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
diddus Posted January 30, 2017 Share #28 Posted January 30, 2017 2. I agree with his thoughts on the M. I feel hung out to dry with it too. I've invested a lot building a system and the M10 has locked me out with no tether. I still see no real reason to upgrade from my M9. but that's just the thing, isn't it? The M9, despite being quite old is still viable. It's just a rangefinder camera, nothing more, nothing less. The M10 is just that, but with a better screen and ISO. The M system can't really do all that much in terms of real innovation without sacrificing the heritage. Which means simplicity, size, the lenses and the rangefinder. I get GAS all the time for no good reason as I am perfectly happy with my M9. I tried the M 240 but it wasn't for me. The M10 might be, but way pay so much more when I'm already happy. What feature could Leica really give me to make me NEED a new M? Live view is probably the most interesting one, but I'm good with my Summilux. I don't even want to change lenses. The M is a specialized product, as is the S - they fill certain niches in a market of overloaded cameras that are supposed to be able to do anything and everything but without a clear winner of the best camera. I doubt that there will ever be a camera that is perfect for any occasion Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted January 30, 2017 Share #29 Posted January 30, 2017 Each person's desired features and style of use will differ I am sure. I am surprised to read comments in different conversations that some people want to have more not less in the M10. Basically I guess put back all of the possible capabilities but in that new smaller size body. My view is that this new one is intended to answer what a lot of public comment here at least has asked for previously. Make it analog M thin, take out the video function which 'purists' don't want, etc. Remember the posts about that leading to the disabling function in firmware. I would have thought that the larger finder would be welcomed too. What didn't happen of course was to make it cheaper. Stefan Daniel did note in an interview that the M (Typ 240) and the MP version remain in the range currently. I don't need the M10 but I think its very desirable for more traditional rangefinder type photography like street and travel. My M (Typ 240) is sitting unused since I very largely shoot in studio now with the S system.I did try studio shoots and tethering there with the M but I think that the S is a much better tool for that style of photography myself. Then there's the SL and I suspect that the next S may follow the same mirrorless route that brings some real advantages especially the ability to move the AF of course. I was aghast initially when that was rumoured (EVF in place of OVF) but I guess that we shall see. I don't really understand the comparisons of the SL to the excellent new mirrorless medium format designs though. I think that it is more in competition with full frame 35 mm DSLRs. For what its worth I think that the S system is in its own niche somewhere between the pro cameras from Canon/Nikon and the increasingly amazing sensored medium cameras from Hasselblad etcI don't doubt that the newer cheaper mirrorless medium format designs will erode the tiny market for all though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted January 30, 2017 Share #30 Posted January 30, 2017 For my needs the S is the better tool. But the M and Noctilux gives a look I can't see replicated with the S. If there was a 65mm Summicron or even better, Summilux, then it would be a no brainer for me. I just wish they would get these reliability issues sorted too. I am almost tempted to jump in and see but all the issues and no real sign of life doesn't leave me feeling it's a wise move. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erlingmm Posted January 31, 2017 Share #31 Posted January 31, 2017 For my needs the S is the better tool. But the M and Noctilux gives a look I can't see replicated with the S. Have you tried the 100mm on the S? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted January 31, 2017 Share #32 Posted January 31, 2017 Have you tried the 100mm on the S? I love it. A lot. But I also need that look more so in a standard perspective too. If I go down that track I will most likely get the Contax 80mm f2 too which will open up a film platform as well so ticks all the boxes. But a Leica summircron or summilux in 65 or 70mm lens would have me leaping in. My most used two lenses are Noctilux and then 75m Summilux. Just waiting on Leica to to see what is happening, and also to see if the Fuji or X1D will work as an alternative with adapted lenses. There is already talk of a Contax adapter for Fuji and it's possible to see a Leica S adapter too and on the X1D with CS lenses. But there is also a Nikon D810 Successor, perhaps a monster A9 from Sony and also an A7r3 around the corner too and the Sony might just bridge the gap with my Leica lenses too and give me some more time to wait for a new S. But it sort of makes sense to go the Sony route these days rather than sink endless money into expensive systems. I would rather be spending that money on projects rather than gear. Ideally I would like an M kit and an S kit though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted January 31, 2017 Share #33 Posted January 31, 2017 I tried very briefly the Summicron S100 at f/2 at a Leica event.There's not a whole lot of DoF as you would expecthttp://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/247391-studio-portraits-s-cameras/page-5#82I have tried the current Noctilux on an M but as with The Summilux wides it's just too large and unbalancing on an M body for me to enjoy. After a day of walking with it in hand for street shooting it felt uncomfortable to me. Maybe I need some strength training. I did shoot with it for a studio workshop but that was stopped down which negates its advantage of course. I seldom shoot anything wide open in any case.My S (Typ 007) (16000 or so exposures over ~13months) did just develop a problem with the CF card latch which is irritating since its needed to go back to Wetzlar for that. Leica here did send me a loan camera though.Meanwhile my lenses are past I think 30,000 exposures now with zero problems whatsoever. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erlingmm Posted February 1, 2017 Share #34 Posted February 1, 2017 Leica S is highly profiled by the company at WPPI in Las Vegas next week. Does not look like an abandoned system. Maybe we even can hope for some news? http://us.leica-camera.com/World-of-Leica/Leica-Events/About-Leica-Events/Local/North-America/2017/Tuesday-07-February-2017-8-00-00-am-Thursday-09-February-2017-6-00-00-pm-Leica-at-WPPI Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom0511 Posted February 1, 2017 Share #35 Posted February 1, 2017 The Fuji GFX is smaller than the S and doesn't seem to lack in functionality (apart from native leaf shutter lenses) - quite the opposite... I would say its is too early to be able to say something about functionality, robustness, and most important optical quality in regards of the Fuji. A camera system is more than a pre-announced datasheet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted February 1, 2017 Share #36 Posted February 1, 2017 Leica S is highly profiled by the company at WPPI in Las Vegas next week. Does not look like an abandoned system. Maybe we even can hope for some news? http://us.leica-camera.com/World-of-Leica/Leica-Events/About-Leica-Events/Local/North-America/2017/Tuesday-07-February-2017-8-00-00-am-Thursday-09-February-2017-6-00-00-pm-Leica-at-WPPI Well spotted. Well I hope so too. You would think it would make sense for Leica to say something, anything, about the S and it's future at this point given the other options are all stacking up and coming into availability for a fraction of the cost. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
albireo_double Posted February 1, 2017 Share #37 Posted February 1, 2017 I would say its is too early to be able to say something about functionality, robustness, and most important optical quality in regards of the Fuji. A camera system is more than a pre-announced datasheet. I am on the same boat as you, Tom, with an S007 body and almost all the lenses. But let's face it, the GFX is not just a "pre-announcement datasheet". There are a bunch of videos now online showing the main aspects of that system in use by real photographers, and they look good to me, on all the aspects that you mention. Availability in stores apparently from 23 February. Which doesn't mean I'll buy one (I'll rather spend my cash on visiting interesting locations, renting a studio space, hiring models etc to actually develop my photography). But if Fuji make an S lens adapter that actually works as good as the H adapter for the S, then I'll consider it, as a second body. In any case, the X1D and the GFX are, in my view, the two cameras that Leica should watch because they can quickly steal sales away from both the S and the SL systems. As to Fuji's optical quality...if the existing X lenses are any indication, then I am not worried. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan.y Posted February 1, 2017 Share #38 Posted February 1, 2017 "not worried" as in the Fuji lenses likely won't be as good as Leica's or that they will suffice? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 1, 2017 Share #39 Posted February 1, 2017 Actually, there is not much wrong with Fujinon lenses in general. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
R3D-D0T Posted February 2, 2017 Author Share #40 Posted February 2, 2017 Well spotted. Well I hope so too. You would think it would make sense for Leica to say something, anything, about the S and it's future at this point given the other options are all stacking up and coming into availability for a fraction of the cost. Heck, even Phase One responded with a "budget" version of one of their backs... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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