First impressions - M10

[dsalamena]

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Hi! Has anyone tried the new thumb up that Leica is selling as an accessory? I'm wondering if it's worth the price in terms of increased stability and, in particular, how it affects the use of the rear wheel. Thanks!

[digitalfx]

Jono,

 

Thanks.  I'm on 6.0.  I'll update.  

 

I want to say again, this is not a review.  I'd like to believe I'm a sort of mix between how I feel about a camera and I also have a technical background.  Once I realize I like the camera because, I understand it and it is technically good enough... I stop fussing and get into the feel and enjoy.  I'm already into the enjoy.

 

I'll update my Lr to 6.8.  Then I'll report about the yellow.    

 

Thanks Jono,

 

Rick

 

 

6.8 has an M10 Profile

[Ronazle]

Battery charging.  Last year I went into a remote area that probably was 200 miles from the nearest Leica store or source of Leica batteries.  I left all three of my chargers behind. Three days later I returned after running down four fully charged  M9/8 batteries - if I did not have all  four batteries pictures would have been missed.  Extra batteries are a good idea, even though expensive; at least for those of us who occasionally forget things.  The experience improved my shooting  picture taking discipline Regards, Ron

[Rick]

Before I comment anymore on color,

 

My M10 Lr profile reads:  LEICAM10  (that is the only choice)

 

My M240 Lr profile reads:  Embedded or Adobe Standard.

 

Am I up to date for the M10?  Also, I am now on the latest ver. 6.8

 

Thanks,

 

Rick

[digitalfx]

Thanks for that.  I'm at 6400/25000... because I can.  I might cut the M down in half like you.

 

Rick

 

 

This is the way I look at it;

we have 100-6400 on the dial + one additional ISO.

 

Realistically...what are you going to use most often? The next step up 8,000, 10,000, 12,500  or 25,000?

 

I just cant see myself using 25,000. If there is so little light I have to go that high, I really don't want to shoot anyway.

 

From my very basic tests, 10,000 is about as high as I want to go before the image starts to degrade and DR drops significantly....so I put my final choice at 10k

I feel like its a nice option to have beyond 6400 that I may actually use.  If I really need to go higher, then I can always dig in the menu.

[kuau]

Probably to early to ask, yet for those who have a M10 now and who,have upgraded from the M240 i know there are no regrets in the decision yet with what seems like a glut of used M240 out there now for 50% off there initial price is the new M10 "worth it" especially for people who are not high ISO shooters and can live with up to 1600 ISO

 

Don't get me wrong I realize the whole Leica price proposition doesn't really apply and "value" for the money is in this case in the eye of the beholder, I get it the M10 is supper cool and I would love to have one if money was no object, yet for me I really want to keep both my SL and my S 006 they all have there purposes just as the M has its place also.

 

I have seen all the comparisons in terms of IQ, DR, and ISO performance and clearly the M10 is an evolution product for Leica as the M240 has been out for quite some time.

 

There are needs and wants in all of life. As photographers we all seem to want the latest gear and for some it is necessary to upgrade especially with all the recent comments about the high ISO performance of the M10 it is clearly better then the older M240 and for some that makes the decision simple.. Upgrade ASAP and don't look back, yet what about the rest of us?

 

Just saying..

[digitalfx]

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M240 is a great camera. If they are really 1/2 the price of an M10...its a bargain.

[kuau]

New M10 in the US are $6595 used M240 or selling for around $3500...

[Rick]

Color:

 

PLEASE READ THIS THREAD:  http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/268761-m10-color-update-in-lr-68/

 

The new version of Adobe Lr (6.8) is fantastic.  I was on an old version.  All of my color comments are wrong.

 

Please download the new version and choose:  Adobe Standard.

 

The M10 color is fantastic.  I don't have any negative comments now.  Sorry for the comments about the yellow.  They were wrong.  Remember, I did say these were just my first impressions.    

 

Rick 

[Chaemono]

Color:

 

PLEASE READ THIS THREAD:  http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/268761-m10-color-update-in-lr-68/

 

The new version of Adobe Lr (6.8) is fantastic.  I was on an old version.  All of my color comments are wrong.

 

Please download the new version and choose:  Adobe Standard.

 

The M10 color is fantastic.  I don't have any negative comments now.  Sorry for the comments about the yellow.  They were wrong.  Remember, I did say these were just my first impressions.    

 

Rick 

 

Too late. I already canceled my order. Now I have to get back in the queue which means a six month wait, at least. Thanks a lot!

[Rick]

Too late. I already canceled my order. Now I have to get back in the queue which means a six month wait, at least. Thanks a lot!

 

 

You're welcome.  The color is fantastic - no problem with yellow in ver. 6.8.  Actually, you should thank Jono.  I believe there are a lot of these yellow photos out there on the net.  Like Steve Huff's color and high ISO review where he actually liked it?  Glad we got to the bottom of this issue.

 

Rick

[otto.f]

 This is not a little battery.  I believe that I could shoot a whole day on vacation, chomping, and some EVF easily with two batteries.  Probably, a whole day with one battery if I was careful.  

 

Rick

If you just don't fiddle with the Wifi

[otto.f]

I'd love to hear other folks' impressions... good or bad.

 

Rick

I got it yesterday night. I agree with all your observations. AWB and skintones are a quantum leap further. The noise/grain in for instance 1600asa is extremely esthetic, in such a way that you can put in a as a deliberate esthetic aspect like with Kodachrome200 in the old days.

 

Rangefinder: I wonder why I bought the Visoflex, my APO90 and 75lux were spot on rightaway without using a loupe.

 

And did someone mention the strap? It is ideal: how lightweight can a leather strap be? The best strap Leica ever made (which was about time but ok)

[otto.f]

Hi! Has anyone tried the new thumb up that Leica is selling as an accessory? I'm wondering if it's worth the price in terms of increased stability and, in particular, how it affects the use of the rear wheel. Thanks!

It is very fine and more comfortable than ThumbsUp, doesn't feel like steel like the ThumsUp does, more velvety. The rear wheel is more within reach than without it

[Rick]

I got it yesterday night. I agree with all your observations. AWB and skintones are a quantum leap further. The noise/grain in for instance 1600asa is extremely esthetic, in such a way that you can put in a as a deliberate esthetic aspect like with Kodachrome200 in the old days.

 

Rangefinder: I wonder why I bought the Visoflex, my APO90 and 75lux were spot on rightaway without using a loupe.

 

And did someone mention the strap? It is ideal: how lightweight can a leather strap be? The best strap Leica ever made (which was about time but ok)

 

 

Otto,

 

Thanks for the post.  I agree with all of that.  The strap with a little time or some saddle soap could be quite nice, huh?

 

I see you have an MM.  How do the M10 files compare and contrast to the MM.  I kind of like the monochrome setting.

 

Rick

[brill64]

i don't own an M10 but i have a question - since they've often come under attack in the forum & they are still there in the new camera, can anyone comment on the ooc jpg files? any noticeable differences or improvements to previous digital M's?

[cookedart]

Some scattered finds and impressions after my first day of shooting with the m10:

 

• I’m an eyeglass wearer. The 28mm framelines are at the extreme edges of my vision, 35mm are definitely more comfortable. I’d say the 28mm framelines appear very close to what the 35mm framelines do on the M240. Definite improvement of the finder in every way. Not quite as roomy as a 0.58x film M, but obviously a lot more accurate to focus. A great compromise.

• The frame rate in Live View starts significantly lagging when zoomed at 10x. At 5x it seems normal, though. Also, 5x and 10x are no longer labelled (the wifi app it calls it 2:1 and 1:1)

• The top right corner of LCD screen pokes into your thumb. I think with this new thinner body the thumb grip would actually be an good shape if not for the LCD being in the way. This is especially unfortunate because the right side bezel of the lcd is the largest.

• Wide angle color drift is definitely different than M240. Still have to do more tests but very encouraging.

• Battery life is a little worrying. Sad because in theory the M240 battery could conceivably fit inside the body, if the SD card slot was not in its current location. I know space is at a premium but it sucks that battery life was what we lost here. With the way I use it, I’m looking at around 300-500 shots per battery. This is in colder weather though. This is a bigger pain point right now because spares are impossible to find.

• Battery takes ~ 1 hour to charge to 80%, and ~1 more hour to charge fully.

• Long exposures are still tied to ISO. Long exposure noise reduction still not configurable.

• Detents are noticeably stiffer on thumb dial than the m240's.

• Detents on ISO wheel are weaker than the other dials. Also, the ridges are less pronounced, and the dial itself is pretty short, so shifting it with one finger is tough. Also, the A position is not firmer than the rest of the positions, like the Shutter Speed dial is.

• Thinner shape makes grip much nicer than the m240 with lighter weight lenses (up to and including the 35 and 50 lux), but the m240 is much more comfortable in my hand with heavier lenses (such as the 15mm Zeiss ZM).

• Play Mode only has two display modes: The image without any info or overlays, and the image with image info and clipping overlays that flash on and off. The M240 has 4 display modes: Image, Image w/ Histogram, Image w/ Clipping Overlays, Image with Image Info.

• GPS with the Visoflex 020 doesn’t seem to work? I've heard its slow, but I don't think I was able to connect to any satellites (just had a big x over the satellite icon). Will try again tomorrow.

• Visoflex 020 seems to have a rattling noise, even when plugged in.

• Frameline brightness definitely jumps around when faced with bright point lightsource in the dark. Pretty annoying.

• Still noticeably heavier than a fully loaded M6/M7.

 

Minor things:

 

• Pressing up on the controller in review mode seems to mark it with a star. Basically a shortcut to ‘rate’ the image. It’s only one star or no stars though.

• I've noticed in colder weather, that flipping through images is noticeably sluggish. Writing to the card is very very fast though (have only tried one high speed card though)

• Haven’t found a good foolproof way to raise/unlock the ISO dial in a manner that feels intuitive to me. Seems to always involve a fingernail, which is not ideal if you're wearing gloves.

• Focus button is still hard to activate and find by feel (far easier to find the lens release button).

• Does anyone notice the left side of the LCD is brighter on the menus when in a submenu? Or do I just have an unevenly backlit LCD?

• On/Off switch detent is very firm.

• Button labels are only screen printed on, not engraved. However after 4 years of using the m240 they haven't worn off, so this is probably ok.

• Thumb grip has been reshaped. I think the m240 thumbie will still work though.

• Sad to see the silver four way controller go on the chrome m10.

• The Leica logo red dot has returned to the older, smaller size. Looks to be the same size as a film M's.

• The shape of the weather sealing gasket on the bottom plate has changed.

• Going from the favorites menu to the main menu is a little disorienting, especially since I have lens detection added as a favorites item (which is the first item menu on the main menu). Some kind of differentiation would be nice here (a different background color would help)

• Would be nice to have m-ISO be a favorites item

• Would be nice to reorder the favorites menu to your priority

• Definitely not a fan of the placement of the type on the back of the m10 (Leica Camera Wetzlar, Made in Germany). This was centered on the m240 to the hot shoe which looks nicer to me.

• Noticed the front finder window is only slightly taller, but significantly wider. And of course the rear eyepiece is bigger too.

• Info View is a little cluttered to me. Might just take a little getting used to where the info is though.  

[Alo Ako]

Impressive summary 

[ELAN]

My first impressions with the M10 after 24 hours of almost constant usage:

 

Size is very nice. Feels lighter too. Definatly feels nicer to walk around with the M10 than my M240.

 

Shutter has a weird sound to my ear. Seems a little plasticy. My wife (who has posed for hundreds of portraits from 1 meter) thinks the shutter on the M10 is louder than the M240. I tend to agree.

 

ISO dial: I like the concept, not sure about the fidedly implementation. Will reserve judgment for now. But I do notice that the strap rubs against the dial and puts pressure on it. Time will tell if that's a problem.

 

Viewfinder: it is a little different, but not yet sure how. The 28 and 35 lines seem the same as the M240. I do notice that focusing is easier and faster. That and the camera size are the two things I like most about the M10.

 

Baseplate seems faster to take off and put on. I like the M baseplate and happy to see it retained on the M10.

 

Favorites menu is awesome.

 

Wifi works nicely out of the box. I set it up and it connected to my iPhone without any fuss. Pretty fast, too.

 

Image quality: I haven't downloaded any photos into LR yet...

 

Some issues:

 

Battery is too small. From fully charged it was at 50% after 220 frames. That's without LV or EVF, review is off and little chimping. My M240 battery would be at 80% after similar usage. This is by far the biggest downside of the M10.

 

Review sluggishness (bug): at about 250 frames Play review became extremely sluggish - about 5 sec to move from frame to frame, with the LED blinking like crazy. Turning the camera off and on didn't help. This is with a fast Sandisk 64 card that was used for 2 years in my M240 and formatted in the M10. Until frame 250 all was fine, and then all of a sudden at frame 300 it became normal again. Weird.

 

Changing lenses isn't smooth; I changed a few lenses and each time it took me a few tries to fit the lens. Maybe the bayonet needs breaking in, or maybe it's different tolerances than the M240 and MP.

 

Screen changes brightness in Play mode all the time. Perhaps that's because the brightness sensor is just above the buttons where my fingers are.

 

The silver chrome finish seems nicer on my film MP.

 

No split level will be a problem for tripod work.

 

...

 

All in all I love the M10 and I'm sure it will become a classic M, if it's not already.

 

My M10 was manufactured on December 23, 2016, the day before Christmas. It was reserved for me on launch day at the Wetzlar store (in October I put my name on "the non-existent list for whichever camera is released next"). I picked it up yesterday

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[don daniel]

I could only use my dealer's M10 for half an hour. It is the best M Leica has ever made and I have ordered one. I even like the JPGs out of cam. But is there a possibility to adjust noise reduction applied to the JPGs? I think, NR is too aggressive with high ISO pictures. I prefer less washed out details and do not feel uncommon with a certain amount of grain. With the M9 and the M240 I only used DNG, because I did not like the colours from the JPGs. Leica have done a good job in choosing and tuning the sensor of the M10. I guess from time to time I could use JPG only to get quick and good results.