M10 - the Image Thread

[Steve Spencer]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

16 bit and web.. say no more

 

I will say a bit more, however. Nico is totally right in all his explanations, but I will add that when flickr or any online system compresses your files you can expect that exactly the type of problems that we see in Nico's image will emerge, but not on all shots and it will be more likely with smooth gradients as Nico suggests. It won't happen all the often, but it will happen from time to time. If you want to avoid these problems you usually can do so by carefully compressing the files yourself, but like Nico I usually don't bother. It only affects a relatively small set of images and it is quite a bit of extra work and what I really care about is the image on my computer and not what ends up being posted on the web.

[Steve Spencer]

If Flickr alone compress that much then everybody's file on flickr will look like that but no, that's not the case.

 

What happened maybe caused by compressed too many times by the shooter.  First compression- shoot in adobeRGB jpg , second compression- covert into sRBG then the third compression- uploaded to Flickr.

 

I shoot RAW, export to sRGB jpg in lightroom then upload to Flickr. Compress only twice  and never had banding problem.

Ok, this is bad advice, so let me clarify how to avoid these issues as much as possible. First if you want to optimize the image on your computer, shoot RAW, import into a processing program and use Pro Photo colour space. Process your image in 16 bit mode. (Using Pro Photo colour space and 16 bit mode will require hardware that can utilize these capabilities. That means a wide gamut monitor and the ability to process 10-bit colour). Now process the image as appropriate. The image on your computer will have a wider colour space than some people's hardware is able to process, that isn't an issue if you keep it on your computer, but if you want to share it on the web some people will not see it as you do on your computer. If you care about that, then you need to compress it, and if you care about that I would recommend not letting some web program do the compressing. They don't do that good of a job doing it. 

A good way to compress it yourself, but I am not claiming this is the best way is to follow these steps.

1) While in Pro Photo colour space and 16 bit mode, decrease the size of the image, but as you do so decrease the size in steps of about 40% or so instead of decreasing it to the final step all at once. I find 1200 pixels on the longest side a good size for web presentation. 

2) Convert the image to sRGB.

3) Convert the image to 8 bit colour.

4) Compress the image to jpeg, but do as little compression as you can but enough so that wherever your are uploading the image does no compression. (This means you have to know the max file size they will accept without compressing where you are uploading the file. It also means don't use a file sharing service that compresses all your photos.)

If you just upload images to Flickr or any file sharing service and let them do the compression, then there will be a time when one or more of your files will show artefacts from the compression.

Edited March 4, 2017 by Steve Spencer

[kaethe]

Thank you everyone for your "thanks".  I used live view, obviously, to make use of the R lens, but also, it enabled me to enjoy the jaw-dropping occurrence with my own eyes.  The hush that falls over the crowds in the forest and perched on the riverbank is a wonderful whisper, but quickly followed by thousands of shutter clicks.  

 

@Adan, I never visited Yosemite during the Curry Village firefall displays, but everyone who has seen both has made the same comment.  

[Cliff S]

@kaethe

 

Magnificent shot. Worthy of a large framed print. And kudos to adventure at the exact time to see the phenomenon.

[adan]

If you want to avoid these problems you usually can do so by carefully compressing the files yourself, but like Nico I usually don't bother. It only affects a relatively small set of images and it is quite a bit of extra work and what I really care about is the image on my computer and not what ends up being posted on the web.

 

Is that a LR limitation?

 

Full Photoshop has a "Save for Web" file-menu option - where you can

- spec the type of output (.jpg, .png, .gif, .bmp)

- automatically convert to sRGB

- include or discard metadata

- change the image output size (resample)

- adjust the compression with a slider

- all while watching the image in a window for artifacts (and getting a readout of the final file size, and compression level - useful for sneaking under our LF 500K limit).

 

All the settings are remembered from the previous use. Including the save location (I keep a "To Web" folder on my desktop to dump them into).

 

Takes me about 15 seconds per image. 10 secs - if I don't care about changing compression amount from the previous session, and just click - click - click. "Save For Web..." > "Save...." > type in a file name.

Edited March 4, 2017 by adan

[nico1974]

Snowscape by Nicholas T, on Flickr

 

Powerlines by Nicholas T, on Flickr

 

2000m above the sea by Nicholas T, on Flickr

 

Agras by Nicholas T, on Flickr

 

Food Van by Nicholas T, on Flickr

 

Barbican Estate by Nicholas T, on Flickr

[Steve Spencer]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Is that a LR limitation?

 

Full Photoshop has a "Save for Web" file-menu option - where you can

- spec the type of output (.jpg, .png, .gif, .bmp)

- automatically convert to sRGB

- include or discard metadata

- change the image output size (resample)

- adjust the compression with a slider

- all while watching the image in a window for artifacts (and getting a readout of the final file size, and compression level - useful for sneaking under our LF 500K limit).

 

All the settings are remembered from the previous use. Including the save location (I keep a "To Web" folder on my desktop to dump them into).

 

Takes me about 15 seconds per image. 10 secs - if I don't care about changing compression amount from the previous session, and just click - click - click. "Save For Web..." > "Save...." > type in a file name.

 

I always save from Photoshop not Lightroom but I don't do save for the web. The save for the web does the last part of what I do in one step, the step wise reduction in file size that I suggested in my experience creates a bit better files and at times can prevent artefacts. To be specific the difference occurs when you change the output size. Save for the web reduces the size all in one step. I use three or four steps. If you want to save time save for the web is handy and is similar to what I recommend but I do think dropping the size all in one step can in some cases create problems and the step wise size reduction produces nicer looking images.

[Badluck]

any images taken with type 2 50 summilux?

[Bundestrainer]

If you want to set the default for the Leica M10 to have the Lens Profile switched off then just go into develop module with an M10 image selected, click 'reset' which will put it back to the default importing settings for that camera type assuming you do not auto apply any developer presets on import. 

Turn off lens correction, then hold 'Option' on a Mac or 'Alt' I think in Windows and the reset button changes into a set default button, click it and overwrite the default. In preferences you can also configure defaults base on camera serial number, thus have different settings for one M10 to another. You can also set it on ISO, thus configure different defaults for images set to different ISO settings.

 

I am still waiting for my M10, have a M8 with the M8.2 shutter upgrade, its going to be quite an improvement I think.  Number 31 on the list at Reddot in London.  Until then playing with the downloaded RAW files in Lightroom and developing a default setting that I think will suit.

 

I followed your advice but would like to undo the changes. Is there a possibility to restore the default settings that Lightroom usually applies to M10 files?

[Chaemono]

One shot from today:

https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-TPx8DP/

[nico1974]

Leica M10 

 

Image 1, 2, 5, 6 - Voigtlander 21/4 

Image 3,4 - Zeiss ZM35/1.4 

 

Stavros Niarchos Foundation Cultural Center by Nicholas T, on Flickr

 

Stavros Niarchos Foundation Cultural Center by Nicholas T, on Flickr

 

Stavros Niarchos Foundation Cultural Center by Nicholas T, on Flickr

 

Stavros Niarchos Foundation Cultural Center by Nicholas T, on Flickr

 

White Spiral - Stavros Niarchos Foundation Cultural Center by Nicholas T, on Flickr

 

Stavros Niarchos Foundation Cultural Center by Nicholas T, on Flickr

Edited March 5, 2017 by nico1974

[Guest]

A farm building with the Lauerzersee in the background. M10 + Macro Elmar-M. The more I use the M10 the more I love the way it can be set up, and the results it comes up with. Very little processing needed for most images.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Edited March 6, 2017 by Guest

[vikasmg]

A farm building with the Lauerzersee in the background. M10 + Macro Elmar-M. The more I use the M10 the more I love the way it can be set up, and the results it comes up with. Very little processing needed for most images.

 

Nice place, nice camera, nice picture!

 

Could use a bit more contrast perhaps?

 

- Vikas

[Guest]

Thanks I will look at that, this one was just imported into LR and exported. Very little changed. Very nice camera indeed. 

[nico1974]

Bus Only by Nicholas T, on Flickr

 

Stavros Niarchos Foundation Cultural Center by Nicholas T, on Flickr

 

Stavros Niarchos Foundation Cultural Center by Nicholas T, on Flickr

 

Going up by Nicholas T, on Flickr

[Guest JMF]

W Nikkor 35 1.8 M modified on M10

 

Beaubourg by JM__, on Flickr

 

Beaubourg by JM__, on Flickr

 

Au Café by JM__, on Flickr

 

dans Paris by JM__, on Flickr

[nico1974]

Leica M10 with Zeiss ZM35/1.4 and Voigtlander 21/4 lenses - the dynamic range and colour of the new sensor is so much better than what I was able to achieve with the M240

 

 

Stavros Niarchos Foundation Cultural Center by Nicholas T, on Flickr

 

No entry by Nicholas T, on Flickr

 

Stavros Niarchos Foundation Cultural Center by Nicholas T, on Flickr

 

Parking by Nicholas T, on Flickr

Edited March 8, 2017 by nico1974

[lm_user]

Really nice results with the 21mm. It was supposed to be awful on digital. Big accomplishment for the M10. Nice use of the focal length by the photographer

[lm_user]

I really like the last shot.

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Fireboy]

Leica M10 + 50mm Summilux ASPH - VSCOfilm Preset Plus-X125 with tweaking.

 

 

Edited March 9, 2017 by Fireboy