M10 - the Image Thread

[Guest]

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Form what I've read. my understanding is that the SL and M10 sensors are quite different; I don't know about the Q, though.

[SiOnara]

Not true at all. For example, the M9 and the M240 color renditions are very different. Take the yellows and reds of the M240: you can try to use camera profiles and adjust skin tones to look how you think they should but, then, the other colors will be off.

 

 

 

 

The 'Leica look' must be from the lens only then, same as the film days.  Kodak stock looked different to Fuji film which looked different to Ilford. 

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[LotharZhou]

Sunset in Breda, typical Dutch landscape with calm and beautiful colours. M10 with 40mm Nokton.

[LotharZhou]

Sunset in Breda, typical Dutch landscape with calm and beautiful colours. M10 with 40mm Nokton.

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[Guest]

Indeed LotharZhou a very beautiful image.

Edited February 24, 2017 by Guest

[Chaemono]

Yes my point exactly. In those days the digital lines, M8, M9 and M240 each had a different sensor and thus a very different rendition.

In the most recent generation: Q, SL, M10, same sensor same rendition, even though they were released at very different points in time.

 

You're right. In the following link the first few images compare the colors of the M10 and the SL with the the same lens. Colors are the same, it's just color balance that differs which I adjusted in LR: https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-FdBQFg

 

Also, all the way at the bottom of this thread on page 7 I've posted links comparing the M10 and the SL using two different lenses

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/267776-please-convince-me-the-sl-5014-is-better-than-summilux/page-7

[nico1974]

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A few additional images from my Ski trip to North Greece with the new Leica M10 and Zeiss Lenses 

 

Zeiss ZM25/2.8

 

Dawn - Meteora Greece by Nicholas T, on Flickr

 

Zeiss ZM 35/1.4

 

Mountain Voras - Greece by Nicholas T, on Flickr

 

Zeiss ZM 28/2.8

 

Mountain Voras - Greece by Nicholas T, on Flickr

 

Zeiss ZM28/2.8

Snowscape by Nicholas T, on Flickr

[Chaemono]

Some from today comparing the M10 with the Apo Cron and the SL with the Lux-SL. These are at different shutter speeds though. The first three are from the M10 the last five from the SL (see files names). Low res versions for people with cell phones on slow networks in this link: https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-mxqLrW/

[adan]

M10 received today - and along came a colorful event to show handling of "acid" colors - and acres of skin tones!

 

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[adan]

Another - nice DR, 90 Summicron pre-APO.

 

Shows how "tight" the new M10 finder lines are for 90mm now.

 

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[adan]

And this, with the 21 - I no longer have any doubts about matching the M9's "Kodachrome-y" colors! Even though this is just my first stab at an M10 profile. I usually tweak them for a week or so with each new camera, trying different situations.

 

BTW - it was NOT warm here - 35F/2C - lots of goose pimples!

 

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Edited February 26, 2017 by adan

[Chaemono]

M10 received today - and along came a colorful event to show handling of "acid" colors - and acres of skin tones!

 

M10acidcolors2.jpg

 

You wouldn't consider offering your profiles to others for sale?

[digitalfx]

You wouldn't consider offering your profiles to others for sale?

 

could be wrong...but it looks like the stock M10 Profile to me.

Are you using LR 6.8?

[Chaemono]

could be wrong...but it looks like the stock M10 Profile to me.

Are you using LR 6.8?

 

By stock M10 profile do you mean the embedded one or the Adobe Standard? Judging by the yellow jackets in the first one Andy posted it's not the embedded one. I'm using a current LR version with the Adobe profile if that's what you mean. The skin tones in Andy's picture are fantastic.

Edited February 26, 2017 by Chaemono

[Chaemono]

Judging by the yellow jackets in the first one Andy posted it's not the embedded one.

 

On second thought, it could be.

[adan]

Well, as to the yellow jackets - I have yet to find a digital camera that doesn't tend to make bright yellow a tad green. So I cheat - I use Photoshop's Hue (in the HSB control panel) or "Selective Color" controls to nudge yellows towards red about 3-4 points. In almost every picture with significant yellows. I've done it with most M8 and M9 shots for 10 years (and Canon 5D/6D's - and Sony R-1 etc. etc.)

 

Camera calibration has this oddity - you can adjust directly for the hues and saturation of just the three photographic primary colors - red, green, blue. You can't tweak the secondary primaries - cyan, magenta, and yellow - but they are affected by adjusting the main primaries. If you adjust blue, you are adjusting the saturation of yellow at the same time (in equal proportion) and the hue of yellow (in the opposite direction - the more purple the blues are set, the more green the yellows go). No way around that, so I get the blues numerically correct, and know that I'll almost always have to nudge the yellows separately once in PhotoShop.

 

As to calibration - I don't use LR, I use full Photoshop, with Adobe Bridge as my cataloging lightbox, and the Adobe Camera Raw Photoshop plugin (similar to LR's "Developing" controls) for raw developing (and calibration settings). But as far as I know, Adobe LR uses essentially the same sliders and basic interface as ACR, just in a different package.

________

 

For what it is worth, these are the settings I used for these pictures, as my first "working" calibration for the M10. Subject to (probably small) changes, as I said, with more experience in new situations. Everything I list below has been saved as the new default settings for Camera Raw and the M10 - any and every .dng tagged as an "M10" picture in the metadata and so recognized by Camera Raw, automatically now gets these settings applied on import.

 

Basic Settings or Developing defaults (in LR language)

WB - custom set for daylight. I don't use "Auto" or "As Shot." Pix under yellow indoor light get the WB fixed manually. I may occasionally apply "auto" WB via the eye-dropper, on a per-picture basis, but not for these here.

 

My custom default WB - Temperature 5400, Tint -5 (slightly green)

 

Exposure/contrast/hi-lites/shadows/whites/blacks - default to "0." I may adjust them per picture as I think needed, but the defaults on import are zero.

 

Clarity and Vibrance - default to "0" -  Saturation +10 (same as for M9).

 

Curves - default straightline. Sharpening and Noise reduction, all zero. HSL/Grayscale - zero. Split-toning OFF. Lens corrections all OFF. FX - OFF

 

Camera Calibration Settings (the GOOD stuff!)

 

Starting from the Embedded LEICA M10 profile, and then tweaking from that starting point with the color sliders, as follows:

 

Shadows -7 (towards green)

 

Red Primary: Hue +5 (toward yellow), Sat. -19

 

Green Primary: Hue +23 (towards cyan), Sat. +40

 

Blue Primary: Hue +8 (towards magenta), Sat. -12

 

That sets up the default "coloring" for the M10. Until I change my mind.

 

I do also have a "secret digital-M calibration weapon," however.

 

I only use Walter-Mandler-designed lenses from the 1980s (or the 1960s - 135 Tele-Elmar). Which have "greener" glass than the more recent Solms/Wetzlar lenses. So using my settings, results with the newer lens designs will be pinker - and with more contrast.

 

IMHO - those older lenses make for much nicer skin coloring - "tanned" rather than "sunburnt" - less pink in the skin. YMAYTMV.

[Chaemono]

Well, as to the yellow jackets - I have yet to find a digital camera that doesn't tend to make bright yellow a tad green. So I cheat - I use Photoshop's Hue (in the HSB control panel) or "Selective Color" controls to nudge yellows towards red about 3-4 points. In almost every picture with significant yellows. I've done it with most M8 and M9 shots for 10 years (and Canon 5D/6D's - and Sony R-1 etc. etc.)

 

Camera calibration has this oddity - you can adjust directly for the hues and saturation of just the three photographic primary colors - red, green, blue. You can't tweak the secondary primaries - cyan, magenta, and yellow - but they are affected by adjusting the main primaries. If you adjust blue, you are adjusting the saturation of yellow at the same time (in equal proportion) and the hue of yellow (in the opposite direction - the more purple the blues are set, the more green the yellows go). No way around that, so I get the blues numerically correct, and know that I'll almost always have to nudge the yellows separately once in PhotoShop.

 

As to calibration - I don't use LR, I use full Photoshop, with Adobe Bridge as my cataloging lightbox, and the Adobe Camera Raw Photoshop plugin (similar to LR's "Developing" controls) for raw developing (and calibration settings). But as far as I know, Adobe LR uses essentially the same sliders and basic interface as ACR, just in a different package.

________

 

For what it is worth, these are the settings I used for these pictures, as my first "working" calibration for the M10. Subject to (probably small) changes, as I said, with more experience in new situations. Everything I list below has been saved as the new default settings for Camera Raw and the M10 - any and every .dng tagged as an "M10" picture in the metadata and so recognized by Camera Raw, automatically now gets these settings applied on import.

 

Basic Settings or Developing defaults (in LR language)

WB - custom set for daylight. I don't use "Auto" or "As Shot." Pix under yellow indoor light get the WB fixed manually. I may occasionally apply "auto" WB via the eye-dropper, on a per-picture basis, but not for these here.

 

My custom default WB - Temperature 5400, Tint -5 (slightly green)

 

Exposure/contrast/hi-lites/shadows/whites/blacks - default to "0." I may adjust them per picture as I think needed, but the defaults on import are zero.

 

Clarity and Vibrance - default to "0" -  Saturation +10 (same as for M9).

 

Curves - default straightline. Sharpening and Noise reduction, all zero. HSL/Grayscale - zero. Split-toning OFF. Lens corrections all OFF. FX - OFF

 

Camera Calibration Settings (the GOOD stuff!)

 

Starting from the Embedded LEICA M10 profile, and then tweaking from that starting point with the color sliders, as follows:

 

Shadows -7 (towards green)

 

Red Primary: Hue +5 (toward yellow), Sat. -19

 

Green Primary: Hue +23 (towards cyan), Sat. +40

 

Blue Primary: Hue +8 (towards magenta), Sat. -12

 

That sets up the default "coloring" for the M10. Until I change my mind.

 

I do also have a "secret digital-M calibration weapon," however.

 

I only use Walter-Mandler-designed lenses from the 1980s (or the 1960s - 135 Tele-Elmar). Which have "greener" glass than the more recent Solms/Wetzlar lenses. So using my settings, results with the newer lens designs will be pinker - and with more contrast.

 

IMHO - those older lenses make for much nicer skin coloring - "tanned" rather than "sunburnt" - less pink in the skin. YMAYTMV.

Very nicely done! Thank you. Hopefully, Colin at Huelight will eventually make generic profiles for newer lenses on the M10 that can come close to the look that you have achieved.   

Edited February 27, 2017 by Chaemono

[BBHewee]

Nothing beautiful, but further examples at ISO 10k and 16k. 16k shows some banding when processed.

 

 

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[nico1974]

A few new images from Greece taken with the Leica M10 and Zeiss ZM 35/1.4 - I just love how sharp this combination is and the non existence of colour aliasing artifacts with the new Leica sensor 

 

Meteora - Greece by Nicholas T, on Flickr

 

Meteora - Greece by Nicholas T, on Flickr

 

Synagogue by Nicholas T, on Flickr

 

No. 6 by Nicholas T, on Flickr

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[adan]

..........I just love how sharp this combination is and the non existence of colour aliasing artifacts with the new Leica sensor

 

Trust me, with enough lens resolution, and the right subject matter and subject contrast, the M10 sensor will still color-alias like a monkey! Even Leica is subject to the Nyquist-Shannon Theorem.

 

M10, 135 Tele-Elmar, full picture and detail.

 

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