Dirk Mandeville Posted March 19, 2017 Share #621 Posted March 19, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) I'll never understand people who order an extremely popular niche product from a small manufacturer and then complain about wait times. As said above, it's pretty simple supply vs. demand. Demand is huge and Leica can only produce so many cameras a day for worldwide distribution. It's going to take awhile. I ordered mine the first week of February and don't expect it for several more months. I expect it will take longer than that to get my M9 back from them for the sensor replacement. No complaints from me. I'll just enjoy it when it gets here. 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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CJJon Posted March 19, 2017 Share #622 Posted March 19, 2017 lol. I never told you to place an order a year before the camera comes out...I simply said this is why I got one early. Its a simple problem called supply and demand. If the dealer has 200 pre-orders and they only get 4-5 per month...well you do the math. The solution is to choose your dealer wisely, or search around. If you don't want to wait, there are plenty of other options...Canon was simply an example. But you didn't answer my question...how do you propose they solve the shortage? cut corners? hire 500 temporary camera assemblers and rush them to work? seriously, do you think Leica is building them slow on purpose? The launch of any Leica M is going to be slow...this one is most defiantly going faster than the previous one. There are not plenty of options. Name one digital full frame rangefinder on the market today. You can't. I want an M10. Production issues aside, Leica distribution is in need of change. I was one of the first out of the gate to place an order. I should have one by now. I should not have to get lucky, pre-pre order a year in advance, or inquire around the Earth to find one. Leica is seemingly sending out cameras in a secretive haphazard manner. Someone can stumble into a Leica store in Dubai and in comparison almost grab one off the shelf, yet I am waiting months. Also communication from Leica to dealers AND customers needs to change (neither happens now.) How about the dealers let Leica know who placed an order and when. The orders then get put on a master list at Leica and they ship them out to the dealers in the order they received them. What would be so damned hard about that? Do you think it is OK that I have waited this long and Leica has provided zero communication to my dealer? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJJon Posted March 19, 2017 Share #623 Posted March 19, 2017 I'll never understand people who order an extremely popular niche product from a small manufacturer and then complain about wait times. As said above, it's pretty simple supply vs. demand. Demand is huge and Leica can only produce so many cameras a day for worldwide distribution. It's going to take awhile. I ordered mine the first week of February and don't expect it for several more months. I expect it will take longer than that to get my M9 back from them for the sensor replacement. No complaints from me. I'll just enjoy it when it gets here. Because I was one of the very first to order and have yet to get mine. This isn't an issue that they are not available to anyone and everyone has had to wait. People are ordering and getting a camera within a week. Some bought off the shelf. Yet I and others wait with zero explanation or information from Leica. That is not acceptable for such an expensive camera. A simple spreadsheet at Leica would tell them who ordered and when. First come, first served and all that... What is really happening is an inequitable distribution that is not based on logic. First in line is meaningless. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJJon Posted March 19, 2017 Share #624 Posted March 19, 2017 (edited) I'll never understand people willing to pay close to $7000 for a camera and don't expect even a modicum of customer service (or fairness) from the company. Boutique indeed! Edited March 19, 2017 by CJJon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Mandeville Posted March 19, 2017 Share #625 Posted March 19, 2017 I'll never understand people willing to pay close to $7000 for a camera and don't expect even a modicum of customer service (or fairness) from the company. Boutique indeed! Maybe I just have a reasonable definition of customer service and fairness. I bought my M9 used and it is years out of warranty. But Leica is replacing the sensor free of charge. I call that fair and good customer service. Waiting a few months for an extremely popular camera that was just released? I call that expected. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eoin Posted March 19, 2017 Share #626 Posted March 19, 2017 Pro tip, the red pill is not working ... maybe it's time to try the blue one!. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
6bit Posted March 19, 2017 Share #627 Posted March 19, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Pro tip, the red pill is not working ... maybe it's time to try the blue one!. LOL Sheet bump. https://ethercalc.org/730accjq0n1t Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJJon Posted March 19, 2017 Share #628 Posted March 19, 2017 Maybe I just have a reasonable definition of customer service and fairness. I bought my M9 used and it is years out of warranty. But Leica is replacing the sensor free of charge. I call that fair and good customer service. Waiting a few months for an extremely popular camera that was just released? I call that expected. Gee, I wish we were discussing sensor replacement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted March 19, 2017 Share #629 Posted March 19, 2017 Gee, I wish we were discussing sensor replacement. Well, the M10 earmarked for you is having its sensor replaced right now. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marblemadness Posted March 20, 2017 Share #630 Posted March 20, 2017 Because I was one of the very first to order and have yet to get mine. This isn't an issue that they are not available to anyone and everyone has had to wait. People are ordering and getting a camera within a week. Some bought off the shelf. Yet I and others wait with zero explanation or information from Leica. That is not acceptable for such an expensive camera. A simple spreadsheet at Leica would tell them who ordered and when. First come, first served and all that... What is really happening is an inequitable distribution that is not based on logic. First in line is meaningless. I understand your irritation. But it seems what you should blame is not Leica but the shop unless you haven't ask for explanation to Leica Camera AG directly. Please could you share the shop name you had such bad experience. I hope the shop I'm in the queue is not that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDOC Posted March 20, 2017 Share #631 Posted March 20, 2017 (edited) I wonder how the number of orders for the M10 compare with those for the M240 at same the point in time after its announcement. I suspect that M10 orders are running much higher. Edited March 20, 2017 by NDOC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brill64 Posted March 20, 2017 Share #632 Posted March 20, 2017 everything has a logic. its just that we haven't discovered what it is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest )-( Posted March 20, 2017 Share #633 Posted March 20, 2017 I'm more than happy to wait for mine, take as long as you need, gives me a chance to vaguely save enough to pay for it! Maybe I'm an idiot (I'm not ruling it out) but I don't feel I have some privilege to demand a certain kind of something purely because it is an expensive camera. These things are made by gnomes in bio-luminescent caves in a mythical country, the process can't be rushed. It's also the Equinox today, so there's that. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambot-M Posted March 20, 2017 Share #634 Posted March 20, 2017 Different people have different requirements and different expectations. If the distributions were First come First Serve irrespective of order taken in from any vendor, or if there was a open and transparent process applied, there would be no anguish over late delivery. Since there are many who bought one with a wait time of 10 days ( that's how it should be everywhere in the first place!), people who are still waiting after a couple of months of booking will definitely feel frustrated. Wait and watch is all I can do. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted March 20, 2017 Share #635 Posted March 20, 2017 .... wait time of 10 days ( that's how it should be everywhere in the first place!),.... How could that be? Leica's production capacity is limited and can not be raised on short notice. Once they have raised their capacity, they have to use it or lose it. Reducing production capacity is no easy thing to do in Europe, and once done, you'd be hard put to hire the qualified workers again you fired a short time before. Leica could have secretly produced the new M10 for one year, placing all of the output into storage, never telling anyone about the new model sometime to be released. Then, at the magic time, they would have moved the whole stock at once to the stores, thus ensuring that each and every store had a sufficient supply for the first demand. Only not even this would really work. Who, for instance, would be able to allocate the proper number of units to each store, such that each customer would fetch without fail any number of cameras along with any number of accessory parts? How would inventory be moved from stores which did not sell as many as anticipated to those stores that had run out of supplies, and all within the first ten days? If inventories exceeded demand, who would be out of the money for the surplus stock? The dealers? Besides, I think I could guess which members were the first to complain that Leica lagged more than a year in innovation as compared to the competition. I'm trying very hard not to think that some members are throwing tantrums over not having access to the latest toy or collection piece. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surelythisnameisfree Posted March 20, 2017 Share #636 Posted March 20, 2017 "Leica could have secretly produced the new M10 for one year, placing all of the output into storage, never telling anyone about the new model sometime to be released. Then, at the magic time, they would have moved the whole stock at once to the stores, thus ensuring that each and every store had a sufficient supply for the first demand." Like most other electronics manufacturers? I get that Leica isn't Apple, but at the same time they won't sell millions of units and Leica is NOT as small a company as many insist. In fact, people aren't even asking for unlimited supply up front, just a better understanding of when they will get something they are paying a small fortune for. For most Leica buyers some budgeting, selling etc is required before paying out thousands of £/$ so it isn't unreasonable to expect the company in control of production to give its distributors some idea of timing 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted March 20, 2017 Share #637 Posted March 20, 2017 .... it isn't unreasonable to expect the company in control of production to give its distributors some idea of timing That would require the distributors to give Leica some idea of the demand, and this before the product is actually announced or even made. Besides, Leica is not like any other electronics manufacturer. The expensive bits in a Leica are mechanical and optical bits. Leica is indeed as small as some knowledgable people here report. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted March 20, 2017 Share #638 Posted March 20, 2017 It is quite telling on this thread that most of those defending Leica's handling of orders already have theirs.. Perhaps you are confounding cause and effect. Leica is reading this Forum and does arrange its own delivery-list accordingly. Just be a decent kid and Christmas won't be far away. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeicaFFM Posted March 20, 2017 Share #639 Posted March 20, 2017 There are not plenty of options. Name one digital full frame rangefinder on the market today. M 240 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surelythisnameisfree Posted March 20, 2017 Share #640 Posted March 20, 2017 That would require the distributors to give Leica some idea of the demand Exactly. Place order at dealer, order goes to Leica. Allocated production slot. Buyer gets notice that he has order number xxxxxxxxx scheduled for production say w/c 18 September 2017 and can expect to take possession 2 weeks later. Customer is happy as can arrange his affairs accordingly, dealer is happy as can forecast revenue and avoid agitated customer calls, Leica is happy as can take deposits up front and has better view of demand to scale production accordingly. It isn't rocket science. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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