lct Posted March 31, 2017 Share #301 Posted March 31, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Painful to have to carry two bodies to do things that any $1k camera can do easily nowadays. I tried hard to follow the Leica route with the M240 but enough is enough. My next Leica will be a compact rangefinder with a fast EVF and basic video features or won't be a Leica. YMMV. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 31, 2017 Posted March 31, 2017 Hi lct, Take a look here So how long before video capture functionality arrives?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest Posted March 31, 2017 Share #302 Posted March 31, 2017 Well as someone who has a pro' foot in both the video and still photography camps I have to say that whilst I was initially pleased that the 240 and other variants of the camera did have video I found it in practice severely lacking in functionality and quality. Used it once to grab some B roll for a short feature film but the images were way off quality as compared to the other camera systems that contributed footage to that project, so I've not used it since. Also video in the stills camera world has moved on and up a lot, to 4K and soon higher plus extremely useful options like 5 axis in-camera IS, ( like the incoming GH5 for example and some current Sony and Pentax offerings ). I see no signs that Leica in it's M line will follow that trend and frankly for me it shouldn't bother to try. The M is a first class stills camera, unequalled in it's particular suited field of work and again for me it shouldn't try to be all things to everyone, this is why I for one am happy that video isn't there in the M10, sensible. I just wish that having disabled the video function through the menu on my 240's the video run button could be assigned to another user-selectable function. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 31, 2017 Share #303 Posted March 31, 2017 Stood a chance for what? Professional-level video, for which it was not intended anyway in the first place. However, there has been some quite good stuff made with it. (with a few add-ons ) (Can't find it right now, but there was a documentary about a historical train for instance, link is on the forum somewhere) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 31, 2017 Share #304 Posted March 31, 2017 Ya reckon?? The M240 was released around the same era as the Panasonic GH3 and Sony A7S. The Leica never stood a chance. Gordon Key words: "journalistic use" I'm sure Leica never intended to compete on another level, they are not that blind to the rest of the market. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted March 31, 2017 Share #305 Posted March 31, 2017 Key words: "journalistic use" +1. Used to be the Leica way to me. Oh well... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted March 31, 2017 Share #306 Posted March 31, 2017 I know one person who is using the 240 to shoot motion for a very high level Conde Nast publication. They've used the videos faults as character to very good effect. I don't want to have to carry two bodies. I don't want to have to stop shooting, swap lenses onto another body and then start shooting again. It has to be there, at the finger tips. The decisive moment still applies. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Not everything has to be Hollywood feature length quality. Not everyone even wants that. What I find the M lenses give in aesthetic, outweighs what the not as good video quality takes. It is what it is and for somethings that works fine. The 240 motion quality is good enough for somethings, albeit with limitations. To suggest it would never get better is not true and surely you know that. With all this in mind do people really think these videos looks so bad to remove it from the camera? I think it looks great. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Mandeville Posted March 31, 2017 Share #307 Posted March 31, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) The fact that one or two people have used the M240 for a high quality niche video production is pretty irrelevant. The overwhelming fact is that the majority of M purchasers buy them for still photography and most never use the video function at all. Those demanding video come back to the M system are a minuscule minority. I just don't see it happening (thank goodness). Interestingly, I saw an article recently describing an upcoming firmware update for the Canon 5DMkIV. It listed about a dozen features that are expected, and every single one of them were video related. Not one mention of any feature of interest to a still photographer! This is why I am glad Leica dropped the video, and why the prevailing argument of video proponents ("It's just one button. Don't use it if you don't want it, but no reason to deny it to us.") falls completely flat. Video is a rabbit hole, and it is anathema to everything the M system ever stood for. The M is a photographer's camera, not a Swiss Army knife. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pebbles Posted March 31, 2017 Share #308 Posted March 31, 2017 At the risk of upsetting some people i would claim that video is not photography. The M10 is for photographers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 31, 2017 Share #309 Posted March 31, 2017 And photographers are too stupid to do video clips? I don't think so... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 31, 2017 Share #310 Posted March 31, 2017 The fact that one or two people have used the M240 for a high quality niche video production is pretty irrelevant. The overwhelming fact is that the majority of M purchasers buy them for still photography and most never use the video function at all. Those demanding video come back to the M system are a minuscule minority. I just don't see it happening (thank goodness). Interestingly, I saw an article recently describing an upcoming firmware update for the Canon 5DMkIV. It listed about a dozen features that are expected, and every single one of them were video related. Not one mention of any feature of interest to a still photographer! This is why I am glad Leica dropped the video, and why the prevailing argument of video proponents ("It's just one button. Don't use it if you don't want it, but no reason to deny it to us.") falls completely flat. Video is a rabbit hole, and it is anathema to everything the M system ever stood for. The M is a photographer's camera, not a Swiss Army knife. Are you feeling threatened somehow? Nobody is forcing you to push that red button. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted March 31, 2017 Share #311 Posted March 31, 2017 At the risk of upsetting some people i would claim that video is not photography. The M10 is for photographers. There are countless photographers who are making a living from directing film too. Then there is the sort of film that is between photography and classical motion/cinema. Motion has is becoming increasingly relevant today and is being used in ways it hasn't been in the past. The whole world is evolving. The M10 isn't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted March 31, 2017 Share #312 Posted March 31, 2017 Reminds me of my youth. The Leicameter was not for (add "true" if you are polite) photographers, neither was TTL nor AE of course. AE..., the M7... what a shame! Was for soccer moms that. A true photographer, or a photographer in short, is supposed to do pics a la HCB with a mere M2. The M6 is allowed but only because HCB had one, but without TTL of course... Just kidding . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 31, 2017 Share #313 Posted March 31, 2017 Just found this one - to me it proves that the limitations are in (the mind of) the photographer, not in the camera... https://vimeo.com/69123824 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted March 31, 2017 Share #314 Posted March 31, 2017 I know one person who is using the 240 to shoot motion for a very high level Conde Nast publication. They've used the videos faults as character to very good effect. I don't want to have to carry two bodies. I don't want to have to stop shooting, swap lenses onto another body and then start shooting again. It has to be there, at the finger tips. The decisive moment still applies. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Not everything has to be Hollywood feature length quality. Not everyone even wants that. What I find the M lenses give in aesthetic, outweighs what the not as good video quality takes. It is what it is and for somethings that works fine. The 240 motion quality is good enough for somethings, albeit with limitations. To suggest it would never get better is not true and surely you know that. With all this in mind do people really think these videos looks so bad to remove it from the camera? I think it looks great. And I've shot over a hundred weddings with a pair of M9's and loved it. But I do understand that I was in the vast minority. Most of my peers thought I was a lunatic in a world of fast zooms and autofocus. Why make it so hard for myself? But I found it immensely liberating and satisfying and my work improved. So I'm not saying it can't be done. M's CAN shoot excellent video. But... They're surrounded by dozens of devices that make quality video easier including your phone. Add to that the huge chorus of people who didn't want video at all and Leica saw no need to develop it for the M10. And it does take some effort to implement the codecs and in camera software. That in turn made it easier to make a smaller body (heat dissapation). And then they used the removal of video as part of their marketing. I can't see a case wher Leica see it as worthwhile to invest in putting video back into the M10. There's just not enough demand. Another unique feature of the M10. The only camera where almost no one wants it to do video. Put it in via firmware and there would be howls of protest. I went to a Leica Australia event in Sydney last night and there was a room full of people half of which either had or were waiting for an M10. None of them were concerned about video and the current wait list shows that it's not hurting sales. Personally I'm not against video in an M. I'm in the " I just won't press the red button" camp. From a pragmatic perspective I just don't see a case where Leica would bother to add it to the M10. I'd like Leica to remove the LENR and give me 30 minute exposures. But I don't think they'll do that either. Gordon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 31, 2017 Share #315 Posted March 31, 2017 Agree, Gordon, there are plenty of options outside Leica that will do the same job better. It just saddens me to see a camera with so much potential being pushed inside a small niche. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted March 31, 2017 Share #316 Posted March 31, 2017 Just found this one - to me it proves that the limitations are in (the mind of) the photographer, not in the camera... https://vimeo.com/69123824 Indeed. Wonderful. There are some very nice shots in this. It's a perfect example, I see very few of the negative artefacts, choppy rolling shutter, softness etc. It's very sharp. These two shots look stunning and to me show what I was saying - the lenses giving much more than what the other things take away. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/268395-so-how-long-before-video-capture-functionality-arrives/?do=findComment&comment=3245901'>More sharing options...
Dirk Mandeville Posted March 31, 2017 Share #317 Posted March 31, 2017 Are you feeling threatened somehow? Nobody is forcing you to push that red button. This is disingenuous. As pointed out in my second paragraph, video is a rabbit hole that brings a lot more consequences than just an extra button that you can choose not to push. To pretend it doesn't affect other aspects of camera design and firmware development resources is highly misleading. The fact that so many in the pro-video crowd keep repeating it makes me realize that they don't even truly understand what they are asking for, in terms of the future development of the M system. And no, I don't feel threatened. But I didn't purchase the M240 and will be purchasing an M10. Maybe it was Leica that felt threatened. They themselves said that their research showed a large majority of M users either didn't care about video or did care and absolutely didn't want video in the camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted March 31, 2017 Share #318 Posted March 31, 2017 Agree, Gordon, there are plenty of options outside Leica that will do the same job better. It just saddens me to see a camera with so much potential being pushed inside a small niche. I feel the same way about Leicas insistence on mandatory LENR and the short bulb exposure times. The M10 could be a stunning portable landscape camera but I can't shoot joined start trails or a 10 minute exposure (things I actually do). So all my Leicas sit on a shelf while I take another brand when I shoot landscapes. And don't get me started on how I feel about thoise two things on the S........ Gordon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted March 31, 2017 Share #319 Posted March 31, 2017 And I've shot over a hundred weddings with a pair of M9's and loved it. But I do understand that I was in the vast minority. Most of my peers thought I was a lunatic in a world of fast zooms and autofocus. Why make it so hard for myself? But I found it immensely liberating and satisfying and my work improved. So I'm not saying it can't be done. M's CAN shoot excellent video. But... They're surrounded by dozens of devices that make quality video easier including your phone. Add to that the huge chorus of people who didn't want video at all and Leica saw no need to develop it for the M10. And it does take some effort to implement the codecs and in camera software. That in turn made it easier to make a smaller body (heat dissapation). And then they used the removal of video as part of their marketing. I can't see a case wher Leica see it as worthwhile to invest in putting video back into the M10. There's just not enough demand. Another unique feature of the M10. The only camera where almost no one wants it to do video. Put it in via firmware and there would be howls of protest. I went to a Leica Australia event in Sydney last night and there was a room full of people half of which either had or were waiting for an M10. None of them were concerned about video and the current wait list shows that it's not hurting sales. Personally I'm not against video in an M. I'm in the " I just won't press the red button" camp. From a pragmatic perspective I just don't see a case where Leica would bother to add it to the M10. I'd like Leica to remove the LENR and give me 30 minute exposures. But I don't think they'll do that either. Gordon No, I know you are right and I'm sure Leica has no intention of putting it back but by the same token, one can make a pretty decent case that there are better stills cameras in some ways to the M10. So I don't really buy that argument. I do honestly (and respectfully) believe Leica have messed up here. Aside from movies (and tethering but that's a different story) it is otherwise a brilliant camera and maybe the best M yet. I really hope that Leica would reconsider at some point. Video is such a part of everyday life now. I bet if Oscar Barnack was still around he would be wanting video. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 31, 2017 Share #320 Posted March 31, 2017 Funny thing - the original Leica was meant as an exposure meter for movie... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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