Peter H Posted January 19, 2017 Share #141 Posted January 19, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) I wish Leica would stop releasing a new battery and charger with every camera - drives me mad. That, and reservations about the EVF, are my only reservations about this camera. I love the fact that Leica continues to refresh the M camera with different versions. What next? Couldn't agree more about the batteries and the EVF but overall I think they've done a good job on the M10 for what is probably a largish segment of its intended market. Apart from an EVF version at some point, which may take on an identity of its own or be a "replica M" for those who like the style, I expect it will stay essentially unchanged for evermore, except they'll probably keep the sensor reasonably up to date and make a few cosmetic tweeks to keep it feeling fresh every few years. I don't think it will ever be quite the world-beating camera with both the best OVF and EVF available as I have hoped for, but I expect I'm in a minority. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 19, 2017 Posted January 19, 2017 Hi Peter H, Take a look here Leica M10 officially announced. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
IkarusJohn Posted January 19, 2017 Share #142 Posted January 19, 2017 That would be no bad thing, Peter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted January 19, 2017 Share #143 Posted January 19, 2017 That would be no bad thing, Peter. You may be right. But it saddens me that it's become necessary to call a halt to innovation in this way, but I may have be mistaken all along in regarding the M as an innovative camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted January 19, 2017 Share #144 Posted January 19, 2017 but I may have be mistaken all along in regarding the M as an innovative camera. Yes, I think you probably have been. The M camera was pretty innovative back in 1954 and I think Leica nailed it pretty much right there and then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZDavid Posted January 19, 2017 Share #145 Posted January 19, 2017 Bang on. Actually, I believe Oskar Barnack designed a prototype even earlier. And for all its innovation, the M3 was really just the next evolutionary step up from the earliest screwmount Leica -- the original design for which is now over a century old! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
matlep Posted January 20, 2017 Share #146 Posted January 20, 2017 Tried the M10 today. I was expecting a revolution. But I was a bit disappointed. Those who say that the camera is lighter than the other Ms are obviously lying or have bought the hype from marketing apartment at Leica. 20 grams is no real world difference. I didn't find it being much smaller in size either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyalf Posted January 20, 2017 Share #147 Posted January 20, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) When I started reading about the M10, my initial though was "Its all good". BUT hang on. No self-timer position? For *me* the M is a trpod camera during the 2 months when the sun is below the horison 24/7. So for *me* the self-timer position is a must for a M. Also, not to happy about a smaller battery and not being able to reuse any other (Leica) battery.Stil I hope for success, it seems like a really great camera.P.S. Please, no rant about the self-timer not being essentail. It is for me. Period. In the previous answers here I find the attitude that real user concerns doesnt matter, and that personal attacks are justified. They do, and personal attacks are just lack of understanding that others want to use the M10 for photography. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted January 20, 2017 Share #148 Posted January 20, 2017 When I started reading about the M10, my initial though was "Its all good". BUT hang on. No self-timer position? For *me* the M is a trpod camera during the 2 months when the sun is below the horison 24/7. So for *me* the self-timer position is a must for a M. Also, not to happy about a smaller battery and not being able to reuse any other (Leica) battery. Stil I hope for success, it seems like a really great camera. P.S. Please, no rant about the self-timer not being essentail. It is for me. Period. In the previous answers here I find the attitude that real user concerns doesnt matter, and that personal attacks are justified. They do, and personal attacks are just lack of understanding that others want to use the M10 for photography. - The self timer is right there in the menu, assignable to favorites ... just as it is in the SL. IMO, that is even more convenient than being a part of the power switch. I prefer that a power switch just turn the camera on and off. - The desire for a slimmer body had the inevitable consequence of a thinner battery since the M240 battery completely filled the body cavity with no room available to trim down. Whether there might have been a way to expand the battery in any other dimension .. I trust that the engineers at Leica considered that thoroughly and went with the best option they could construe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Q Posted January 20, 2017 Share #149 Posted January 20, 2017 I think if you select self-timer in the menu once, it will stay that way (2 months for you) until you select another mode. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyalf Posted January 20, 2017 Share #150 Posted January 20, 2017 - The self timer is right there in the menu, assignable to favorites ... just as it is in the SL. IMO, that is even more convenient than being a part of the power switch. I prefer that a power switch just turn the camera on and off. - The desire for a slimmer body had the inevitable consequence of a thinner battery since the M240 battery completely filled the body cavity with no room available to trim down. Whether there might have been a way to expand the battery in any other dimension .. I trust that the engineers at Leica considered that thoroughly and went with the best option they could construe. Good for you As for me using the M to make photos, and repeating myself about X2 (try this exercise in snow and minus degress with gloves on): "Wiht timer: For 5 photos (for merging) you press shutter 5 times. Without self-timer: First frame you have to to go to menu, find timer, set timer, and press shutter. Second frame you have to to go to menu, find timer, set timer, and press shutter. Third frame you have to to go to menu, find timer, set timer, and press shutter. Fourth frame you have to to go to menu, find timer, set timer, and press shutter. Fifth frame you have to to go to menu, find timer, set timer, and press shutter." and (selfi with large wet trout): "Try taking such as selfie by accessing a menu with wet and slimy hands from contact with fish. The M240 is mounted on a mini tripod and timer option used. The fish is kept in a net until photo is taken. With X2 I wouldn't even try. With M240 its doable." See: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/257897-why-x2-x-x-vario-q-and-sl-are-bldy-useless/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth3kpl Posted January 20, 2017 Share #151 Posted January 20, 2017 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-6-METER-AIR-SHUTTER-RELEASE-ON-DRUM-/162356994960 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Q Posted January 20, 2017 Share #152 Posted January 20, 2017 I doubt that, my guess is at least 10 seconds for a dng but I would love to be wrong on that. Leica have said themselves that the wifi will not be viable for tethered shooting. I very much doubt the small wifi antenna inside the M will be up to the task of sustained writing. There are more variables involved with tethered shooting than specs. And it's only an iOS app - this is not a solution in any way. Seems pretty quick. https://youtu.be/wNqgivM7-7M?t=8m24s Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted January 20, 2017 Share #153 Posted January 20, 2017 ... As for me using the M to make photos, and repeating myself about X2 (try this exercise in snow and minus degress with gloves on): "Wiht timer: For 5 photos (for merging) you press shutter 5 times. Without self-timer: First frame you have to to go to menu, find timer, set timer, and press shutter. Second frame you have to to go to menu, find timer, set timer, and press shutter. Third frame you have to to go to menu, find timer, set timer, and press shutter. Fourth frame you have to to go to menu, find timer, set timer, and press shutter. Fifth frame you have to to go to menu, find timer, set timer, and press shutter." No. That may be how the X2 or Q works, but it's not how the SL works. With menu self timer, turn on self time drive mode, then press button five times. Done. Camera will wake up with self timer on until you select a different drive mode. and (selfi with large wet trout): "Try taking such as selfie by accessing a menu with wet and slimy hands from contact with fish. The M240 is mounted on a mini tripod and timer option used. The fish is kept in a net until photo is taken. With X2 I wouldn't even try. With M240 its doable." ... Try:- Wipe hands with rag first - Set self timer (or have it set beforehand) - Make selfie Done this many times, with many different cameras. Operating a $7000 camera with slimed up hands is ridiculous and dumb. BTW: I've never used a self timer to make selfies at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZDavid Posted January 20, 2017 Share #154 Posted January 20, 2017 Got to agree, it's fiddly looking. One of the virtues of the Leica M is you don't have to be a computer programmer to use it. Controls are intuitive. But overall this is a small detail. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DickieT Posted January 20, 2017 Share #155 Posted January 20, 2017 I walked into the Leica store in The City today for something different and they had a M10 on display. Of course I could not resist I mostly looked at the build - a shop is not the best place for taking test photos. I have to say that it feels very nicely balanced in your hand. It is definitely thinner than the 240 - by the looks of it pretty much like the M6. The ISO turn works great and the back panel is a lot cleaner with fewer buttons. My first reaction was - kill the screen all together which made the staff laugh. More people had already made that comment. The camera was equipped with a grip - a necessity for me - which fitted well and provided comfort. The other thing that struck me immediately was the wider/larger view through the VF. Clearer and easier to focus. I thought this was be a big improvement. Would I buy one tomorrow - no. I do not think it will make my photo's better. But I think that Leica has made a significant and meaningful design improvement, bringing it back to the M4/6 feel. But a MP without screen but keeping the EVF and without RED dot - SOLD ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyalf Posted January 21, 2017 Share #156 Posted January 21, 2017 No. That may be how the X2 or Q works, but it's not how the SL works. With menu self timer, turn on self time drive mode, then press button five times. Done. Camera will wake up with self timer on until you select a different drive mode. Try: - Wipe hands with rag first - Set self timer (or have it set beforehand) - Make selfie Done this many times, with many different cameras. Operating a $7000 camera with slimed up hands is ridiculous and dumb. BTW: I've never used a self timer to make selfies at all. Thanks, Do you know if M10 is like SL? The point with a selfie on swicth is that you dont need to "Operating a $7000 camera with slimed up hands" as you do with menues. As to slimy hands and selfie with large fish, I kind of doubt that yo have done this many times based on you answer. No offence meant, but please explain how you do this. Keeping in mind that you need to keep the fish above the water as short as possible and that you cannot wipe the fish because that will damage its skin, same lifting it with dry hands: The fish should not be kept to long in net after catch and before photo because it will then regain strenght. When you then try to lift it up from net it wiil then spend all its regained strenght to get free and the risk is huge that it will get hurt or that the fisher will have to let it go so that it doesnt get hurt. So you have a short time after the catch where the fish is in a kind of shock, and where you dont have time to 1) Place the fish/net 2) find the rag, 3) wipe you hands, 4) fiddle with menues, 5) trigger the camera with dry hands, 6) moisturize your hands (so not to damage the slime layer on skin of fish), 6) lift the fish and 7) move in position for the photo. You have 12s between 5) and completing 7). Please also remember that it takes some time to get the fish out of net. And you should also do 1) to 7) in as short time as possible, let say max 12- 20s (IMO). You shou ideally only do this once because the stress on fish, that is you have one chance to document the fish of a lifetime in one frame. So what I do : 1) Place the fish/net 2) trigger the camera with slimy hands 3) lift the fish ,and 4) move in position for the photo. As a prerequisite I have placed the camera on tripod and prefocused before I start fishing, but I have not turned camera on, but do this in 2). The fish is then normally in the kind of shock and "cooperative". So if the shot fires with fish in posistion I release fish immediatly. I know not many have these kind of requirements, but please understand and respect others techniques before critizing. I will for sure respect your technique as long as you dont hurt the fish to much in making your selfie. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest )-( Posted January 21, 2017 Share #157 Posted January 21, 2017 Could you use a long cable release, having the camera all ready for self timer beforehand? No issue getting a $5 metal cable release a bit slimy. Sounds awkward whatever you do! Slippery fish, camera on tripod, the catching and reeling in, removing hook etc. I'm assuming this is on shore as well and not in a tinnie on a rolling sea or in crocodile infested waters bagging a Barramundi. Do you have any fish selfies you'd be happy to share? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest )-( Posted January 21, 2017 Share #158 Posted January 21, 2017 It's interesting hearing all the different use cases through all this, from studios to shorelines to arctic circle, shows that we are all using our cameras in very different scenarios. Tiny changes to function have very different impacts, very hard to change but stay the same but improve but maintain compatibility with all the M mount history etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Q Posted January 21, 2017 Share #159 Posted January 21, 2017 Yeah, cable release + self timer seems like the way to go for your usage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelwj Posted January 21, 2017 Share #160 Posted January 21, 2017 I use the self-timer on my M4 regularly for photos with me in them (I'm loathed to use the term selfie) and can see the slippery hands point of view. But instead of overloading the power switch, it should be on the front! If they can bring back the frame line selector, then bring back the self timer too! (And I'll add that an M is the perfect tool for the job, no AF to mess with the shot.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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