IkarusJohn Posted March 10, 2017 Share #241 Posted March 10, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) I've never been a huge fan of AF, primarily as they all struggle to focus on what I actually want in focus. The last AF lens I had that was any good was the huge, but magnificent, Nikkor AF-S 14-24 wide zoom. The technique I developed was to fine tune focus manually after the AF had done its bit. I can't remember if I had to hold the shutter release to do this (on an F5), and I don't recall if the manual focus ring was fly by wire - I guess it must have been. But the fine adjustment with the manual focus ring was fast and direct. One finger, small adjustments with immediate results. Not so much with the Leica SL zooms ... I've been photographing gear to put on eBay (couple of lenses, and a whole bunch of adapters) using the 24-90 zoom (I know, I should have used an M prime). Not having a tripod handy, getting the AF to focus on the rear element at a usable aperture was a challenge. Fine tuning using the manual focus ring was a struggle - rather than adjust the focus at the point already selected by the AF, I had to rotate the wretched MF ring a long way to get any response, and even then the adjustment was very vague. I even tried switching AF off and just using the MF setting - I'm not sure if others have struck this, but I do feel this is something Leica can and should improve on. I'm almost tempted to send both zooms back to Wetzlar and tell Leica to fix it - I doubt that is actually technically possible. Is the 50 the same? I expect to be able to use the AF to focus, and to then make fine adjustments with one finger on the MF ring, moving it barely a degree or two to get what I want. Instead, if I can actually get the AF to focus close to what I want, I need to hold the shutter button down without firing off too many shots and spin the MF ring round and round in the hope that I can make the minor adjustment I need. Is it me? My technique? My lenses? Or is that the way Leica intended it (I doubt they have properly turned their minds to it)? They are primarily lens makers of the first order. This surprises me. Cheers John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 10, 2017 Posted March 10, 2017 Hi IkarusJohn, Take a look here Please convince me the SL 50/1.4 is better than summilux. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
pico Posted March 10, 2017 Share #242 Posted March 10, 2017 These "please convince me" threads are interesting. Do you not think the poster is either already convinced and merely looking for co-conspirators (perhaps to convince his mate), or a totally clueless consumer looking for something like a Consumer Report that does not exist? What was the rationale of any buyer? . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted March 10, 2017 Share #243 Posted March 10, 2017 Just an excuse to discuss the strengths and weaknesses of the lenses, Pico. Whenever I see a thread title like that, my gut reaction is to ask "Why?" Or to say "No". Then someone posts something interesting and the discussion goes from there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted March 10, 2017 Share #244 Posted March 10, 2017 I've never been a huge fan of AF, primarily as they all struggle to focus on what I actually want in focus. The last AF lens I had that was any good was the huge, but magnificent, Nikkor AF-S 14-24 wide zoom. The technique I developed was to fine tune focus manually after the AF had done its bit. I can't remember if I had to hold the shutter release to do this (on an F5), and I don't recall if the manual focus ring was fly by wire - I guess it must have been. But the fine adjustment with the manual focus ring was fast and direct. One finger, small adjustments with immediate results. Not so much with the Leica SL zooms ... I've been photographing gear to put on eBay (couple of lenses, and a whole bunch of adapters) using the 24-90 zoom (I know, I should have used an M prime). Not having a tripod handy, getting the AF to focus on the rear element at a usable aperture was a challenge. Fine tuning using the manual focus ring was a struggle - rather than adjust the focus at the point already selected by the AF, I had to rotate the wretched MF ring a long way to get any response, and even then the adjustment was very vague. I even tried switching AF off and just using the MF setting - I'm not sure if others have struck this, but I do feel this is something Leica can and should improve on. I'm almost tempted to send both zooms back to Wetzlar and tell Leica to fix it - I doubt that is actually technically possible. Is the 50 the same? I expect to be able to use the AF to focus, and to then make fine adjustments with one finger on the MF ring, moving it barely a degree or two to get what I want. Instead, if I can actually get the AF to focus close to what I want, I need to hold the shutter button down without firing off too many shots and spin the MF ring round and round in the hope that I can make the minor adjustment I need. Is it me? My technique? My lenses? Or is that the way Leica intended it (I doubt they have properly turned their minds to it)? They are primarily lens makers of the first order. This surprises me. Cheers John Your Nikon wasn't focus by wire. The SL zooms are. Which means that the focus ring isn't mechanically linked. It's just an on/off switch to the AF motors. The more you turn the faster the motors go. AF like MF is a learned skill. Especially when you start pushing the envelope like working with precise DOF requirements. Is the focus point actually where the little box is? Where in that box? Under what circumstances will the AF fall down? If you use it and practice you get better at it. Some modern DSLRs have PAGES of menu settings just for AF. Also keep in mind that even for mechanically linked AF lenses the focus has to be as light as possible so as to not stress the AF motors. So not lovely damping on the focus ring and no hard stops for infinity and minimum. It isn't you. SL lenses are designed with MF as an afterthought, like many modern lenses. For MF nothing beats the real thing. For the SL lenses the best results might be to switch to MF on the camera. You can still use AF by pushing the joystick and then MF from there. Seems to be the best solution. Gordon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted March 10, 2017 Share #245 Posted March 10, 2017 It isn't you. SL lenses are designed with MF as an afterthought, like many modern lenses. For MF nothing beats the real thing. For the SL lenses the best results might be to switch to MF on the camera. You can still use AF by pushing the joystick and then MF from there. Seems to be the best solution. Gordon yup .... works fine for me ....... plus you can use the magnify function and still re-focus AF using the joystick press without cancelling the zoomed image .... which is what happens with a half shutter press. All the AF SL lenses have very accurate and reliable focus ..... as long as you use single point and get the cross in the right place ....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leica1215 Posted March 11, 2017 Author Share #246 Posted March 11, 2017 These "please convince me" threads are interesting. Do you not think the poster is either already convinced and merely looking for co-conspirators (perhaps to convince his mate), or a totally clueless consumer looking for something like a Consumer Report that does not exist? What was the rationale of any buyer? . When I post this topic the 50 sl just out not so long, so I have not able to get hands on experience, also I m not sure how good the IQ is compare to summilux or Apo.... so want it to hear what you guys say about this sl50.. until lately I have had chance to try it in the store, I am a bit hesitate mainly due to the slo AF, my opinion, if AF is slow somewhat, then what is the point carry such heavy lens then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leica1215 Posted March 11, 2017 Author Share #247 Posted March 11, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) *thread hijack* depends what you want to do and what you consider small. I think the SF64 is reasonably sized for the SL. I only use my SF40 on my M. The SF40 is simple but it's a rebadged Nissin i40 which is a fine little flash. Perfect as a fill flash or in a small room. Not enough power for bouncing in larger environments. It has HSS and FEC which is all I need. And it would work well with fast lenses. But I use the power of the SF64 as Im far more likely to bounce off a wall or something when using on camera flash. Off camera I much prefer a simple wireless manual flash. Nissin and Godox both make excellent but affordable options. I use either a pair of Godox 360's or a multi head Elinchromn set up. Gordon Thanks Gordon, it seems SF40 is good choice, I used to have and still have the SF 24 bought it over 10 years ago, it has small screen on the back to set up, not sure if this old flash can be use on SL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted March 11, 2017 Share #248 Posted March 11, 2017 Your Nikon wasn't focus by wire. The SL zooms are. Which means that the focus ring isn't mechanically linked. It's just an on/off switch to the AF motors. The more you turn the faster the motors go. AF like MF is a learned skill. Especially when you start pushing the envelope like working with precise DOF requirements. Is the focus point actually where the little box is? Where in that box? Under what circumstances will the AF fall down? If you use it and practice you get better at it. Some modern DSLRs have PAGES of menu settings just for AF. Also keep in mind that even for mechanically linked AF lenses the focus has to be as light as possible so as to not stress the AF motors. So not lovely damping on the focus ring and no hard stops for infinity and minimum. It isn't you. SL lenses are designed with MF as an afterthought, like many modern lenses. For MF nothing beats the real thing. For the SL lenses the best results might be to switch to MF on the camera. You can still use AF by pushing the joystick and then MF from there. Seems to be the best solution. Gordon Thanks Gordon, I suspected as much. yup .... works fine for me ....... plus you can use the magnify function and still re-focus AF using the joystick press without cancelling the zoomed image .... which is what happens with a half shutter press. All the AF SL lenses have very accurate and reliable focus ..... as long as you use single point and get the cross in the right place ....... I'll give this a go. I had noticed that the double press of the bottom left button was pretty much useless if you're using AF. Press the shutter to focus, double press bottom left, think you might fine adjust using the MF ring, half press the shutter to use the MF and you lose the magnification - Doh! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted March 11, 2017 Share #249 Posted March 11, 2017 When I post this topic the 50 sl just out not so long, so I have not able to get hands on experience, also I m not sure how good the IQ is compare to summilux or Apo.... so want it to hear what you guys say about this sl50.. until lately I have had chance to try it in the store, I am a bit hesitate mainly due to the slo AF, my opinion, if AF is slow somewhat, then what is the point carry such heavy lens then? It's a good question and one I still wonder about occasionally. Is it worth 5-6 grand to have a large prime with pedestrian AF? I like my M 'lux. Both copies but especially the new black chrome I have. And it works well on the SL. However the Sl 'lux draws in a way that's both very different to the M and in a way I find particularly attractive. For *ME* the AF is more than adequate for the times I'll need it and I value it's accuracy. And I know I'll need it after a 12 hour wedding shoot. I have extremely limited experience with the 50 APO or the 55 Otus. But the SL 50 is as close as I've seen to my beloved S lenses in a 35mm standard. It compares extremely favourably to the 70mm S and it's both faster and shows less DOF when I want that. If you know how fast a Canon EF85 1.2L focuses on a 5 series Canon body then you'll be comfortable with the 50SL. It's so similar I'm having flashbacks to the bad old days of Canon . And it's just a bit slow. In my testing so far (only down to EV -1) it keeps it's speed and doesn't hunt very much at all. I'd rather have slower reliable AF than super fast AF that misses all the time. Optics is not an issue. It's that good. It'll just be whether the AF speed is fast enough for the applications you have for it and whether you can justify the size and price. Gordon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leica1215 Posted March 11, 2017 Author Share #250 Posted March 11, 2017 Gordon, I'm no pro photographer, so my view not as throughout as you, I just did took 2 identical pictures 24-90 and 50SL, simple from pixel peeking point the SL win very very little at 200% crop, ISO 400 aperture 3,5 VS 3,6 shutter speed 100 to avoid handshake, I even doubt this very very little can cause by other factors when in the scene unless you put on tripod doing a precise comparison. So my conclusion is 24-90 is darn good, only if you really want to isolate the subject using large aperture below 3.5. Since you have both 24-90 and 50sl...you know better than whom just can do couple test shots. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom0511 Posted March 11, 2017 Share #251 Posted March 11, 2017 1) I wish AF was faster but I am still faster with the 50 SL AF compared to manual focusing. 2) For really accurate manual focus one needs to magnify and switch back and forth between framing and magnification, its possible but for me using the SL50 works better. For portrait I either use one point AF or face detection. With one point AF I find it quit reliable to be able to exactly focus where I want. I think you need some time to adapt to the camera dn how it works. I agree manual focus feels less connected with lenses which are focused by wire. 3) For me the point of getting the 50/1.4 was to have a lens faster than f3.5 at 50mm, and not so much the expection that it should be much better at comparable f-stops compared to the 24-90 zoom. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donzo98 Posted March 11, 2017 Share #252 Posted March 11, 2017 Question for the group.... I live in the USA. If I buy the lens from Germany.... and have an appropriate bill of sale, will Leica USA service it under warranty?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted March 12, 2017 Share #253 Posted March 12, 2017 As far as I am aware all Leica cameras have a world wide warranty. However you *may* get a "handling" charge if going through a different store/distributor as you didn't make them any profit so why should they cover your shipping etc. Gordon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted March 12, 2017 Share #254 Posted March 12, 2017 Simpler, quicker, and usually cheaper going direct to Wetzlar ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donzo98 Posted March 12, 2017 Share #255 Posted March 12, 2017 Simpler, quicker, and usually cheaper going direct to Wetzlar ... You mean in terms of warranty or purchase? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted March 12, 2017 Share #256 Posted March 12, 2017 You mean in terms of warranty or purchase? There's no direct purchase from Wetzlar that I am aware of. I tend to send all repairs direct to Wetzlar, including warranty. This is largely because a previous local dealer (now defunct) wanted to charge me silly prices for shipping and wanted me to pay full price for anything I wanted, to then wait for weeks and in some cases months for Leica to supply. Dealing with Leica direct was a far more congenial experience. That said, my SL failed in the first week, and the local dealer (I bought the camera from) replaced it with their demo for the entire time it took for Leica to get a new camera for me. I als o had a bit of a disagreement with the Asia Vice-President of Leica, and the local importer was very helpful. I guess it's a case of working out who provides you with the best service. Coming from a small market a long way away from the mothership, I have found that establishing a direct relationship works for me. If I lived in London, I would probably forge a similar relationship with LEica Mayfair. Cheers John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donzo98 Posted March 12, 2017 Share #257 Posted March 12, 2017 There's no direct purchase from Wetzlar that I am aware of. I tend to send all repairs direct to Wetzlar, including warranty. This is largely because a previous local dealer (now defunct) wanted to charge me silly prices for shipping and wanted me to pay full price for anything I wanted, to then wait for weeks and in some cases months for Leica to supply. Dealing with Leica direct was a far more congenial experience. That said, my SL failed in the first week, and the local dealer (I bought the camera from) replaced it with their demo for the entire time it took for Leica to get a new camera for me. I als o had a bit of a disagreement with the Asia Vice-President of Leica, and the local importer was very helpful. I guess it's a case of working out who provides you with the best service. Coming from a small market a long way away from the mothership, I have found that establishing a direct relationship works for me. If I lived in London, I would probably forge a similar relationship with LEica Mayfair. Cheers John Interesting... thanks!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexP Posted March 13, 2017 Share #258 Posted March 13, 2017 or get back to topic. How about i give you another alternative for the 50mm range. Try the canon 50L I sold the 50SL and using my Canon 50mm f/1.2 now. AF is snappy and fast. I got extra f stop. Just another alternative. Don't get me wrong. I still love the 50SL but slow AF, heavy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phovsho Posted March 13, 2017 Share #259 Posted March 13, 2017 And relative image quality/satisfaction? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted March 13, 2017 Share #260 Posted March 13, 2017 or get back to topic. How about i give you another alternative for the 50mm range. Try the canon 50L I sold the 50SL and using my Canon 50mm f/1.2 now. AF is snappy and fast. I got extra f stop. Just another alternative. Don't get me wrong. I still love the 50SL but slow AF, heavy. 1/2 a stop. And after 5 copies of the 50L I decided I couldn't live with the focus shift and moved to Leica. Sorry. Not a fan. Focus shift from 1.4 till f5.6. Buckets of CA wide open. Corners are mush till f8. Maybe the Nikon 58mm might be interesting? Or the Sigma Art in EF mount? Gordon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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