Voigtlander 75/1.8 or Leica 90 Elmarit-M

[Mr.Q]

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I've briefly used the 90 Elmarit (latest version with built-in hood) on my A7 and it was fantastic but sold it in favor of a native lens (Batis 85)  I've since sold all my Sony gear and I'm currently shooting with a M9-P with a 21 SEM, CV 35/1.2, and 50 LUX ASPH. (also have Leica Q and Fuji gear) Although I love my 50 LUX, it hardly gets any use because I much prefer 35mm as a general walk-around focal length.  That has me thinking about getting either a CV 75/1.8 vs 90/2.8. I am not considering other Leica options (75 lux and apo-summicron, 90 apo-summicron) due to their price. I know I'll love the 90 Elmarit and it'll give me more reach, but the CV 75/1.8 will provide much needed light-gathering for my M9-P and perhaps better gapping with my CV 35/1.2..... though I think the focal lengths are close enough that I can cope with either.

 

I'd love to hear your thoughts on these two lenses. Preferably with some input on their rendering/color, bokeh, sharpness, and handling.

[Gregm61]

I like the 18/3.8 or 21/2.8, 35-75 three lens minimal combination so I hear exactly what you're talking about, although I often carry both the 35 and 50mm Summicrons and will opt to go with the lighter 90mm Elmarit-M instead of the heavier 75mm f2 APO Summicron. If I'm "fully equipped" I'll also have a 135mm f4 Tele Elmar in tow, so the 90mm Elmarit-M is a nice lighter option to have.

 

Between the 35/1.2 and 75/1.8, that'd be a hefty little setup but optically very nice, assuming you can nail the focus with both wide open.

 

The oldest review of the CV 75/1.8 lens on B&H's website, from a user who previously used the Leica 75mm f1.4, is a pretty positive endorsement of the lens.

 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/827623-REG/Voigtlander_BA275O_Heliar_75_mm_f_1_8.html

[Mr.Q]

Thanks for the link Greg. That was a good read.

 

I agree that the size/weight of the 90 Elmarit is part of what makes it so appealing. But I feel the 75/1.8 is also quite compact and light. (only 17g heavier than the 90 Elmarit)

 

I never take both the 35/1.2 and 50 lux out together as I feel the focal length is too close to bother swapping lenses. Nowadays the 50 lux gets used only when I prefer a two camera setup with my Q. 

 

I guess I could do a three lens setup of 21-35-75 if I get the 75/1.8, and a four lens setup of 21-28(Q)-50-90 if I get the 90 Elmarit........I may have to get both 

[dpitt]

For me the ideal aperture on 90mm is F2.8 or rather F4.0 so even with a 1.8 available I would probably not use it most of the time. So I would not bother carrying the extra weight and bulk of the 75mm F1.8, even if it would give me the same IQ at F4.0. My favorite 90mm is the 90mm f/4 Macro-Elmar-M, very light and compact. Great from 0,7 m to infinity and really sharp wide open.

[Mr.Q]

Thanks Dirk, you certainly have a point and weight is certainly a concern. However, nearly half of my photography is at night or indoors, so low-light capability is very important. It may be wiser to swap my M9-P for a M262 but that is another discussion...

[TomB_tx]

I also find 35 is the main FL on the M9, but I use a 50 some. For longer I have the Voigtlander 75 f2.5, which is exceptional, and Leica 90 Summarit 2.5, and my old TeleElmarit (v1) 2.8 from 1969. I find the TE much better than usually reported, about equal to the Summarit. Both are very reasonable size. I also really like the 90 Elmar-C which I use with my CL (40 and 90 are a nice pair), but low light can be limiting with it.

[FlashGordonPhotography]

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I have the 75mm 1.8. I have previously owned the 90mm Elmarit. I now own the 90mm APO.

 

I really like the 75mm Color Helliar. Wide open it's got some softness and glow. Some of this can be recovered in post but essentially it's a great flattering portrait lens wide open. It's already sharpened up considerably by f2.4 and this is where I tend to use it most. by f4 it's bitingly sharp but still with a bit lower contrast than the modern AA lenses. The blur is lovely. Really lovely.

 

I tried a couple of the 90mm Elmarits and never really loved any of them. Nothing at all wrong but they didn't do it for me. Personally if 90mm is what you want I would seriously consider a 90mm Summarit. Great lens. The newer 2.4 also focuses closer than the Elmarits or the CV.

 

M9, CV 75mm 1.8 (coded as a 'lux) @ f 2.4

 

I&B-170.jpg by Gordon Cahill, on Flickr

 

Gordon

[Mr.Q]

I also find 35 is the main FL on the M9, but I use a 50 some. For longer I have the Voigtlander 75 f2.5, which is exceptional, and Leica 90 Summarit 2.5, and my old TeleElmarit (v1) 2.8 from 1969. I find the TE much better than usually reported, about equal to the Summarit. Both are very reasonable size. I also really like the 90 Elmar-C which I use with my CL (40 and 90 are a nice pair), but low light can be limiting with it.

 

Thanks Tom, the Color Heliar is another interesting option, mainly due to it's size and exceptional reviews. I'm a fan of the 90 Elmarit so really haven't considered the Summarit which is a bit more expensive on the used market. F4 lenses would be too limiting for my photography. 

[Mr.Q]

I have the 75mm 1.8. I have previously owned the 90mm Elmarit. I now own the 90mm APO.

 

I really like the 75mm Color Helliar. Wide open it's got some softness and glow. Some of this can be recovered in post but essentially it's a great flattering portrait lens wide open. It's already sharpened up considerably by f2.4 and this is where I tend to use it most. by f4 it's bitingly sharp but still with a bit lower contrast than the modern AA lenses. The blur is lovely. Really lovely.

 

I tried a couple of the 90mm Elmarits and never really loved any of them. Nothing at all wrong but they didn't do it for me. Personally if 90mm is what you want I would seriously consider a 90mm Summarit. Great lens. The newer 2.4 also focuses closer than the Elmarits or the CV.

 

M9, CV 75mm 1.8 (coded as a 'lux) @ f 2.4

 

I&B-170.jpg by Gordon Cahill, on Flickr

 

Gordon

 

Thanks Gordon.  I think you meant "Heliar Classic" and not "Color Heliar?"

 

Just like you've described, I tend to prefer lenses that have a combination of classic draw and modern sharpness. The 75/1.8 would match the rendering of my 35/1.2 perfectly I think. Handling would be similar too and that's another plus. Given it's $600 price-tag it's a no-brainer. I'll be picking one up soon.

 

As for 90 Elmarit vs Summarit, I have a hard time justifying the Summarit when it feels cheaper yet costs more.

[mhanke]

Once again it sums up to: Depends on what you want to do. I have both eh CV 1.2/35 Mk.2, and the 90 Elmarit. Several months ago, I was very close to sell off the 35mm, since it is such a heavy and bulky lens that I used it far too rarely when travelling (my major photography subject). The 90 Elmarit is nice, but - to be honest - I still miss my 90mm Konica lens originally used on my film M6, which I traded in for the Elmarit. Still feel the Konica was the overall better telephoto lens.

 

Well, meanwhile my photographic perspective has shifted a bit. Being a member of a K9 search and rescue unit, I have now the opportunity to take part in all kinds of exercises, and can be active as photographer. Most of these exercises take place at night, with artificial lighting. Suddently, the 1.2/35mm became interesting again, and I was massively impressed about how it practically snaps into focus. Most of my pictures are made with the aperture wide open and ASA 3200, and even on moving persons, the share of pictures being out of focus is astonishingly small. I really love that lens.

 

However, sometimes I cannot get closer to my object, for example hanging on a helicopter winch some 15 meters above my head. Here, the 35mm lens is too short. In my experience, the Elmarit's f2.8 is not enough to assure a reasonably short exposure time, even at ASA 3200. Additionally, placing an accurate focus is difficult with 90mm. Therefore, I consider adding a 75mm with f2.0 to the CV 35mm. The CV 1.8/75 sounds interesting, but I fear it will not be as sharp as the 35mm (Version II) is already wide open. Consequently, the 2.0/75 Apo-Summicron seems to be the ideal choice, and it is not so expensive either.

 

Marcus

[Mr.Q]

Thanks Marcus. It is interesting how your priorities in lens choice have shifted.

Given that I often shoot in low light, and with the M9-P limited to ISO 640-800, fast lenses are mandatory for me. I am also impressed with how good the CV 35/1.2 focuses. I'm not sure if it's because of the smooth focusing, or the long focus throw, but I agree that it is ridiculously fast and easy to nail focus.

I'd love to pick up a 75 AA, but for me, the 75-90 focal length is more for portraiture and occasional reach. so wide-open performance isn't that important.  For your usage (wow....helicopter winch!) I'm sure it would work great. The 75 AA seems to an absolute laser.

[philipus]

I am afraid I can't help with the Voigtländer lens, but coming from a film perspective, the first part of the below had me smiling.
 

I know I'll love the 90 Elmarit and it'll give me more reach, but the CV 75/1.8 will provide much needed light-gathering for my M9-P and perhaps better gapping with my CV 35/1.2......

 
I do agree that the 'gap' would be worth considering. I find my 90 E-M a very good complement to my 50mm lenses. As a result I don't use my 75 Summicron.
 
So I like my 90 E-M a lot. It takes nice sharp pictures and is easy to use because it has a pleasant focus throw. It is not a very heavy lens and also not very long. The hood can be annoying - on mine it tends to pull out when the lens is pointing down. I sometimes find it a bit difficult to shoot wide open at longer (say 3+ metres) distances and usually opt for f4 to ensure the target is in focus. I can't really speak to how it renders colours because I always adjust the colour balance of my scans.
 
I'm not sure if any of the below is of use from a digital perspective but perhaps.

 

Here's an example on Superia 200 at long distance. It resolves a lot of detail for which it is necessary to check the largest version on Flickr (all my scans there are at 2000dpi).
 

Flickr
 
Another distance shot with a lot of detail, on Vista 200 (EI100)
 

Flickr
 
Yet another example of how well it resolves detail. This taken from the Kofel (1342m) in Oberammergau, so a distance of some 2k probably. Tri-X
 

Flickr
 
Some bokeh. Velvia 100
 

Flickr
 
More OOF. Gold 200
 

Flickr

[Mr.Q]

Thanks Philips, I'm really impressed with the amount of detail in that 3rd shot.

In the end, I've decided to get both the Voigtlander and Elmarit. I also considered the 90 Summarit, but I felt the Elmarit struck the best balance between IQ, size, speed, build quality, and price.