LocalHero1953 Posted January 4, 2017 Share #881 Posted January 4, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) I happen to be in London, and I've taken the opportunity to revisit the TL at Leica Mayfair. I agree about clarity and resolution and brightness of the EVF - all excellent. But, as implemented in the TL, it is still too slow to deal with action, and still has a blackout after shooting. If this can be corrected with a better processor and firmware, fine, but otherwise not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 Hi LocalHero1953, Take a look here Leica M 10. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
lct Posted January 4, 2017 Share #882 Posted January 4, 2017 I happen to be in London, and I've taken the opportunity to revisit the TL at Leica Mayfair. I agree about clarity and resolution and brightness of the EVF - all excellent. But, as implemented in the TL, it is still too slow to deal with action, and still has a blackout after shooting. If this can be corrected with a better processor and firmware, fine, but otherwise not. Not sure about the TL but such blackouts are often due to the auto-review function not being disabled. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted January 4, 2017 Share #883 Posted January 4, 2017 I'd say there are two sides to this. Sure, the "EVF affords the ability to conceive a set of approaches, experiment and get feedback in real time," but it is very often also paralyzing. It can provide so much instantaneous information that you become more mindful of the analytics involved in taking the photograph than you are in the image itself. I have a couple of cameras with EVFs, but I also have the MD. The MD's lack of complicated sophistication requires previsualization and sometimes some downright hard thinking, hardly an attitude that lacks imagination. With the choice of an EVF and an MD, I pick up the MD every time I want to create expression. I pick up my EVF cameras when I need to document something. As they say, limitation is the mother of creativity. Good points, but they needn't apply to a well-implemented EVF which can be set to provide as much or as little information as you choose, including as I often do in my Fuji no predictive exposure simulation. I'm a great fan of OVFs which is why I have been so vociferous about the next M, and why I want it to be an up to date camera so that the marvelous OVF/rangefinder can be preserved in a contemporary manual-focus digital body. But I get the impression that many of the critics of EVFs haven't given them a fair crack of the whip. For those of us who would like their M camera to be their main camera and who do not want a specialist camera for each different type of photographic opportunity, good quality accessories are a way of enhancing and protecting, not undermining, the position of the M in our future plans. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted January 4, 2017 Share #884 Posted January 4, 2017 Not sure about the TL but such blackouts are often due to the auto-review function not being disabled. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted January 4, 2017 Share #885 Posted January 4, 2017 You may be right. As I recall, you can't disable auto review on the TL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted January 4, 2017 Share #886 Posted January 4, 2017 I happen to be in London, and I've taken the opportunity to revisit the TL at Leica Mayfair. I agree about clarity and resolution and brightness of the EVF - all excellent. But, as implemented in the TL, it is still too slow to deal with action, and still has a blackout after shooting. If this can be corrected with a better processor and firmware, fine, but otherwise not. Hi Paul Well - I agree about the speed and the blackout time with the TL - but I guess that's more to do with the processor and the sensor than it is to do with the EVF. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted January 4, 2017 Share #887 Posted January 4, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) You may be right. As I recall, you can't disable auto review on the TL Another Leica genial simplicity? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CYBORA Posted January 4, 2017 Share #888 Posted January 4, 2017 Leica SL seems to have a good metering ( AE ) functionality according to the reviews, and I am also happy with my Q, but Ms may underexpose the scenes very much in bright scenes and sometimes overexpose the scenes on my M262, so may we expect SL / Q metering capabilities on the next M or is there some special metering capabilities on the Q/SL that cannot be applied on rangefinders due to design specs ? I have no idea about the hardware or implementation part of metering systems, so this question may seem stupid , sorry about that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 4, 2017 Share #889 Posted January 4, 2017 As we are already given M240 with poor EVF and no future proofing to upgrade to faster refresh rate one we have no choice but to be happy with it (i am). It would not be OK to launch new M in 2017 with rubbish EVF, excuses that it was designed back in 2015 and that Leica is a small company with expertise in opto-mechanics are plain lame. You appear to have missed the AKA. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianman Posted January 4, 2017 Share #890 Posted January 4, 2017 Nicely succinct I'd say . . . I'd certainly like to see a camera in an M shaped body (and with similar controls and layout) with an EVF instead of a rangefinder - fantastic idea BUT It would be completely crazy not to give it an L mount, so that it had the possibility of using the SL and TL lenses as well as the M lenses - using the L mount would have no disadvantages and a host of advantages. . . . and if so, I'd contend that such a camera wouldn't sensibly be part of the M system - and ought to have a different name! I hear angels singing Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Livingston Posted January 4, 2017 Share #891 Posted January 4, 2017 I think there must be something to do with German engineering and software... I just bought a new Mercedes 250 AMG Sport Estate and decided the 'Mercedes me' app would be useful to log business miles and journey times for billing purposes and the app is supposed to provide that automatically and in the back ground... but you know what... I can't even log in to the damn thing... and when you phone Mercedes and ask perfectly reasonable questions about the way the app works, I just get a blank reply or a 'Oh... maybe..." and interminable request for screen shots and MAC numbers and so on, when the issue isn't at my end... its their system internally. I keep providing them of course, because I'm nothing if not patient... and an eternal optimist... but, in the end... Useless. I once added a German hifi company to our distribution business a few years ago... their app didn't work and their software applications were dreadful... unusable in fact. Yet the mechanical implementation and built quality were exceptional... Dangerous to generalise, I know... but I've just got off the phone from Mercedes again just now and they are driving me mad and need an outlet... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted January 4, 2017 Share #892 Posted January 4, 2017 Leica SL seems to have a good metering ( AE ) functionality according to the reviews, and I am also happy with my Q, but Ms may underexpose the scenes very much in bright scenes and sometimes overexpose the scenes on my M262, so may we expect SL / Q metering capabilities on the next M or is there some special metering capabilities on the Q/SL that cannot be applied on rangefinders due to design specs ? I have no idea about the hardware or implementation part of metering systems, so this question may seem stupid , sorry about that A change of subject - excellent! The metering for the existing M is from a grey patch on the shutter curtain - if you use Live View then it's off the sensor and you can choose spot / centre / matrix metering. Mind you, I've never found exposure a problem on an M, but there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithlaban.co.uk Posted January 4, 2017 Share #893 Posted January 4, 2017 Nicely succinct I'd say . . . I'd certainly like to see a camera in an M shaped body (and with similar controls and layout) with an EVF instead of a rangefinder - fantastic idea BUT It would be completely crazy not to give it an L mount, so that it had the possibility of using the SL and TL lenses as well as the M lenses - using the L mount would have no disadvantages and a host of advantages. . . . and if so, I'd contend that such a camera wouldn't sensibly be part of the M system - and ought to have a different name! Jono, I'd go for the camera you describe if it had an excellent EVF - in combination with my M240 rangefinder - and I wouldn't give a rat's what they named it. Now all we need is for you to persuade Leica to make it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahto Posted January 4, 2017 Share #894 Posted January 4, 2017 Nicely succinct I'd say . . . I'd certainly like to see a camera in an M shaped body (and with similar controls and layout) with an EVF instead of a rangefinder - fantastic idea BUT It would be completely crazy not to give it an L mount, so that it had the possibility of using the SL and TL lenses as well as the M lenses - using the L mount would have no disadvantages and a host of advantages. . . . and if so, I'd contend that such a camera wouldn't sensibly be part of the M system - and ought to have a different name! Highlight mine... L mount will allow the body to be thinner as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianman Posted January 4, 2017 Share #895 Posted January 4, 2017 Bill, I totally agree with you !! I have an Audi, great engineering, totally incapable of indicating something as basic as remaining fuel. A couple of days ago, I got in the car, it indicated a range of 75km remaining... I drove maybe 5km at max, it then decided the range remaining was 20km. I used to work in Luxembourg and drove twice weekly there and back from my place in Waterloo (the battle, not the station). I would always fill up leaving Luxembourg and have a range of approx 900km... I would drive the 200km home and the range then indicated 940km. But yeah, as far as engineering goes, it's great stuff. One of my other hobbies is woodworking and for power tools, I use Mafell and Festool. Both German designed and built. Just brilliant. Sorry for the OT, back to the wonders of EVFs now Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Livingston Posted January 4, 2017 Share #896 Posted January 4, 2017 Well, maybe its the fact I moaned on here and someone from Mercedes was reading... but my car is now connected and the app is working!!!! I know persevering would eventually resolve the issue. And inman, I agree. My last three cars were Audi, an A6, an A5 and an A4 Avant. All were really good although I loved the A5 best of all. I just fancied a change and two or three weeks ago ended up with the Merc. Now the app is working I'm feeling all good about it again All I would like now is a second body to go with my M-P and lenses that has a really high quality EVF solution to use with wides and telephoto lenses and I can use alongside my optical rangefinder and I will be a very happy bear indeed...! As long as I feel it is one camera system, I'll be happy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianman Posted January 4, 2017 Share #897 Posted January 4, 2017 And inman Please call me Ian I don't remember why I used that stupid user name why I signed up here, I think it was my computer username and it just filled in automatically or something... oh, and have a great trip tomorrow Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent M10 Posted January 4, 2017 Share #898 Posted January 4, 2017 Good points, but they needn't apply to a well-implemented EVF which can be set to provide as much or as little information as you choose, including as I often do in my Fuji no predictive exposure simulation. It can "provide as much or as little information as you choose." But that's the bugaboo about EVFs, isn't it? So, you go out and you've turned off all the information. And then what? You're all a mess of self doubt because you turned it all off and then you second guess what, if any, difference all of it might have made with that last shot, or the shot before, or the shot before that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted January 4, 2017 Share #899 Posted January 4, 2017 Jono, I'd go for the camera you describe if it had an excellent EVF - in combination with my M240 rangefinder - and I wouldn't give a rat's what they named it. Now all we need is for you to persuade Leica to make it Wouldn't it be nice to have such influence Keith. . . . sadly of course, if I knew of such a camera I wouldn't be able to talk about it which doesn't mean they haven't made one Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted January 4, 2017 Share #900 Posted January 4, 2017 It can "provide as much or as little information as you choose." But that's the bugaboo about EVFs, isn't it? So, you go out and you've turned off all the information. And then what? You're all a mess of self doubt because you turned it all off and then you second guess what, if any, difference all of it might have made with that last shot, or the shot before, or the shot before that. You might. It's not a problem I recognise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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