LocalHero1953 Posted October 9, 2016 Share #41 Posted October 9, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) An alternative to buying and managing your own multiple backup storage........ I keep everything on a disk on the PC (a 1Tb SSD, separate from the 1Tb SSD where everything else is stored), with a real time backup to the cloud via a Crashplan subscription. I pay for this, but then I don't pay for hard disks, RAID etc. You need fast broadband, at least for the initial backup. I can manage with a 1Tb SSD for my photos because I am ruthless about deleting duplicates and poor quality shots (my appraisal). I have about 30k images since the dawn of time, and I'm currently generating them at a rate of about 3000/year. I do have another portable 2Tb disk that I occasionally copy everything to, but I'm less rigorous about this. Edit: By "the dawn of time" I mean 1865: a scanned image of a family wedding group in Clapton Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 9, 2016 Posted October 9, 2016 Hi LocalHero1953, Take a look here New M262 disappointing - exposure problems. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
microview Posted October 9, 2016 Share #42 Posted October 9, 2016 with adjustments in iridient developer, train pic looks fine to me [edit: but I see you have being doing this in LR!] Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/265350-new-m262-disappointing-exposure-problems/?do=findComment&comment=3126082'>More sharing options...
lct Posted October 10, 2016 Share #43 Posted October 10, 2016 Photoshop works fine on tif files (CS3 here) but raw converters are generally more convenient. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/265350-new-m262-disappointing-exposure-problems/?do=findComment&comment=3126261'>More sharing options...
pgk Posted October 10, 2016 Share #44 Posted October 10, 2016 At least I now know my much hankered after camera is not a "lemon" after all - it was just the operator who was rooted in the past! Firstly can I say that Hard Drive capacity is such that its really not an issue these days - I have nearly 120k RAW files on disks, backed up several times. Secondly, your images of the Ffestiniog Railway are exposed as I would anticipate from centre weighted metering on a duo overcast day with a bright flat sky - they vary depending on the brightness of the sky within the metering area and shadows are for the most part far too dark. Shifting from conventional (film or Jpeg with minimal pp) to RAW shooting requires a different mindset in which you need to anticipate post processing and how your photo can be adjusted to produce the image you want and exposed appropriately. In your examples, the sky would simply blow out and have no information in if you shot images to show shadow detail only, Its possible to expose to retain a hint of highlight detail so that shadows can be recovered in post although under such conditions its would mean substantial underexposure. Can I suggest that you spend some time experimenting by taking exposure series of some shots and view their histograms then adjust and see how everything changes as you do so? Its a learning curve but one which is very worthwhile. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted October 10, 2016 Share #45 Posted October 10, 2016 In my journey through the same issues, I was brought to realise that a flat, bright, light grey, featureless sky is dull and uninteresting in a photograph. Improving my compositional technique to reduce blank sky as much as possible made my photos look better, and they were easier to meter as well. Just a suggestion. Now off to photograph fenland skies with my new 21mm SEM Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted October 10, 2016 Share #46 Posted October 10, 2016 Paul have a great time with you 21mm Elmar. What a superb lens this is and like many have said before on here - the best 21mm Leica has ever made - simply a stunning wide angle! OT I've been thinking about an UWA for some time, and considered a WATE, for use on both the SL and M. But in the end the images and comments on the UWA thread reminded me that tiny exceptional lenses are why I shoot Leica M; the SL is for other purposes, and the WATE, however good, would be a compromise. So the SEM is for the M alone, not the SL! There also happened to be one at a good price at a dealer in London. I put some early shots on the UWA thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CYBORA Posted October 10, 2016 Share #47 Posted October 10, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) Anyone knows why Leica used only classical metering in this model ? Is it a hardware related thing to cut the cost for this downgraded model ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted October 10, 2016 Share #48 Posted October 10, 2016 No Live View i suspect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted October 10, 2016 Share #49 Posted October 10, 2016 Anyone knows why Leica used only classical metering in this model ? Is it a hardware related thing to cut the cost for this downgraded model ? All metering systems are guidance and need to be fine tuned with the user's experience. Centre-weighted metering is as good as any in my view. I actually don't like matrix/multi-pattern metering as these are essentially automated systems which are often more difficult to predict adjustments too than simpler systems. This is especially true if you are trying to determine what level of highlight or shadow detail is losable in high contrast or awkward conditions. Just my view. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted October 10, 2016 Share #50 Posted October 10, 2016 No Live View i suspect. Exactly! Centre weighted average is the only option unless you have LV: and LV is what M262 buyers clearly don't want. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailwagger Posted October 10, 2016 Share #51 Posted October 10, 2016 Exactly! Centre weighted average is the only option unless you have LV: and LV is what M262 buyers clearly don't want. Hmm.... not sure this is true. Presumably, one can still open the shutter and meter off the sensor regardless of whether or not there is a display to output to. Seems more attributable to the minimalist ethos than anything technical. Either that or perhaps, given the price point, they found no acceptable way of control metering modes without adding some new physical control which made it a non-starter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted October 10, 2016 Share #52 Posted October 10, 2016 Hmm.... not sure this is true. But it is. Metering with the image sensor requires a constant video stream from the sensor, just like the video stream you need for live view. The Typ 262 doesn’t do that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpf1952 Posted October 10, 2016 Share #53 Posted October 10, 2016 Prank - certainly not. DNGs take over twice the space of a JPG and I have always preferred shooting JPGs. I can't resist jumping in: I struggle to understand a preference for JPEGs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted October 10, 2016 Share #54 Posted October 10, 2016 Out of camera keepers are less easy to get than playing with raw files in PP for sure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhluxton Posted October 10, 2016 Author Share #55 Posted October 10, 2016 I can't resist jumping in: I struggle to understand a preference for JPEGs. As the OP I'll explain my preference for JPGs - it is because that was the format my first digital camera - one of the Leica branded Fujis supported as did most other digital cameras at the start of the Millennium. One often sticks to what one is familiar with and given that most online hosting sites readily support JPGs, plus as I said earlier I just perceived RAW/DNG as producing much larger file sizes and believed that fine / low compression JPG was adequate which if I had not bought the M262 last week I would probably still believe! I imagine many JPG shooters would share some of these reasons too. The last few days has led me to reappraise what I do and will switch the options on my X and XV to DNG as well for consistency so here is another convert to the DNG cause. John . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.f Posted October 10, 2016 Share #56 Posted October 10, 2016 As the OP I'll explain my preference for JPGs - it is because that was the format my first digital camera - one of the Leica branded Fujis supported as did most other digital cameras at the start of the Millennium. One often sticks to what one is familiar with and given that most online hosting sites readily support JPGs, plus as I said earlier I just perceived RAW/DNG as producing much larger file sizes and believed that fine / low compression JPG was adequate which if I had not bought the M262 last week I would probably still believe! I imagine many JPG shooters would share some of these reasons too. The last few days has led me to reappraise what I do and will switch the options on my X and XV to DNG as well for consistency so here is another convert to the DNG cause. John . Now you're in, welcome on board!! It wasn't too heavy to drag you in with so many hands Think about the much broader possibilities with EfexPro2 in LR too with DNG Some people say it even makes a Monochrome unnecessary/superfluous. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Livingston Posted October 10, 2016 Share #57 Posted October 10, 2016 But it is. Metering with the image sensor requires a constant video stream from the sensor, just like the video stream you need for live view. The Typ 262 doesn’t do that. Exactly... Which is why I got frustrated with those that said they loved the M240 but hated the idea of video and, if Leica had supplied the M without video, it would have been a better and cheaper camera. There was no additional cost in adding video... (which you can switch off completely in the menu anyway, so not even the button has any effect) The moment you opt for live view and additional metering modes, then the video stream is essentially free. It also means an electronic 'visoflex' is possible, making UWA lenses useable without adding too much bulk and obviously helping with fine focussing on longer lenses... and of course the histogram which helps with checking exposure... plus the display screen to give a final check that nothing desperately is wrong in your settings if you so need... again which can be permanently switched off in the menu. I'm happy the 262 is out... it makes me even more sure that my M240P was the most versatile long term M I could have bought... Mine acts like a 262 95% of the time, but for that extra 5%, I don't feel I need an additional camera system... And I have never really understood why the current EVF solution gets so much stick... you only use it at the time of taking the photo... its not as if it has any effect on the resulting output quality...!!! And to the original poster... I too went through that same shock when I first saw the results of my M-P. I was using digital Nikons prior to the M and was using JPEG's most of the time as well. It was fast and they were 'good enough'... a few months working with Lightroom and my M and I couldn't believe the difference in quality and I started to remember 30 years or more of 'real' photography, started to think about exposure and what I wanted to do with the images I was creating at the time of exposure and my work has improved exponentially. I made the mistake of thinking the M was just another digital camera and the rules I once worked to were adequate to get the increased quality I was hoping for... my first few months of using the M were full of buyers remorse and feelings of inadequacy when I saw the results others were getting. Now I'm fine - as you will be too. Your 262 will improve your whole approach to your future photography... not because it will make you a better photographer... but because it stops you being lazy and ignoring all the things you once knew... funnily enough, probably the very things that made you interested in the first place. Enjoy your M and welcome to the family...! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevesurf Posted October 10, 2016 Share #58 Posted October 10, 2016 As the OP I'll explain my preference for JPGs - it is because that was the format my first digital camera - one of the Leica branded Fujis supported as did most other digital cameras at the start of the Millennium. One often sticks to what one is familiar with and given that most online hosting sites readily support JPGs, plus as I said earlier I just perceived RAW/DNG as producing much larger file sizes and believed that fine / low compression JPG was adequate which if I had not bought the M262 last week I would probably still believe! I imagine many JPG shooters would share some of these reasons too. The last few days has led me to reappraise what I do and will switch the options on my X and XV to DNG as well for consistency so here is another convert to the DNG cause. John . You may be making similar LightRoom processing adjustments over and over. In case it hasn't been mentioned, after adjusting an image, try creating a preset, so you can quickly apply a number of settings to an entire group of similar images. [Develop] - [New Preset] - [Create] This really shortens my workflow, or the repetitive adjustments applied to a make a useable DNG. Also learn to create a "Virtual Copy" of a file, so you can feel free to experiment without losing your previous adjustments. [Photo] - [Create Virtual Copy] Good luck! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailwagger Posted October 10, 2016 Share #59 Posted October 10, 2016 But it is. Metering with the image sensor requires a constant video stream from the sensor, just like the video stream you need for live view. The Typ 262 doesn’t do that. I suppose it comes down to how you define video. Obviously you need to be able to read off the sensor continuously, but I would assume its not coming off as h.264. Do we know if there is a separate chip that handles metering and video duties? Or it is that the 262/M-D processing hardware is fully capable, but the functionality is simply turned off (which is what I assumed)? Dunno, just asking. I'm reminded that back in the early 80's I worked for a computer manufacturer that charged $600 to field upgrade their PC/terminals from 32Kb to 64 Kb (yes K). When a customer purchased the upgrade they'd send a tech out who'd spend a few minutes fooling around, then pull a jumper pin. Viola, double the memory. It was more cost effective to wire in all the memory, disable it and then charge extra for those who had to have it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhluxton Posted October 10, 2016 Author Share #60 Posted October 10, 2016 You may be making similar LightRoom processing adjustments over and over. In case it hasn't been mentioned, after adjusting an image, try creating a preset, so you can quickly apply a number of settings to an entire group of similar images. [Develop] - [New Preset] - [Create] This really shortens my workflow, or the repetitive adjustments applied to a make a useable DNG. Also learn to create a "Virtual Copy" of a file, so you can feel free to experiment without losing your previous adjustments. [Photo] - [Create Virtual Copy] Good luck! Interesting thing is any jpg image I have used up to now I create final images using Photoshop Elements and / or either Avery for flickr or Pic Monkey for SmugMug. I am used to working with individual images. What I have realised with Lightroom it might now even save me time compared to what I did before - I doubt it is is going to take me any longer as I may obviate the need for the other "tweaks" which often tended to be colour balance / contrast / exposure or conversion to mono. Anyway I have a couple more trips coming up in the next few weeks so hope to give DNG a good try and develop a way of working with Lightroom. John John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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