On The Meaning And Implications Of No New M At Photokina

[mjh]

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I did understand what he meant, but it is still based on the same design as the M3, a optical rangefinder camera with an M mount and a distinctive form factor.

In other words: It is still an M. Which is something one would expect from a new M. In every other aspect it is a completely revamped camera.

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[biglou]

I can perfectly understand Leica will not comply to any " new model frenzy " (though it did exactly that with the introduction of " special models " for marketing purpose)

I can also understand they won't follow very naturally the more pixels tendancy.

Now, what i do not accept easily is the M240 had not an EVF upgrade yet and will probably never have, it will be enhanced on the future new M when it comes, or possibly disapear in new models, Leica saying you can buy an SL if you want one.

I know already some reasons given to explain this shortcoming but they do not seem goood enough.

An upgrade should exist now and availiable as a retrofit for the existing owners (i am not one of them, i stupidly chose to wait for the enhancement wich i was sure, then, would come soon...)

[Giulio Zanni]

My only grief about the 246 is the 1 minute maximum exposure. Get that to the 4 minutes of the MM1 and I could live with the 246 until my clients will ask me for bigger prints. Now the workaround is to stuck exposures in PS

[biglou]

 

My only grief about the 246 is the 1 minute maximum exposure. Get that to the 4 minutes of the MM1 and I could live with the 246 until my clients will ask me for bigger prints. Now the workaround is to stuck exposures in PS

 

 

 

I agree, there are things that could have been better thought about.

Let's only hope it is not too late and a better M coming, not changing what works well, the general conception, and improving the rest...

[Jeff S]

Indeed it is. With a new case, new baseplate, new rangefinder, new sensor technology, new electronics with a new CPU, new display, new battery, new shutter speed dial etc. etc. one would be hard pressed to name a component the M (Typ 240) shares with the M9. Well, the mount is the same.

 

In an old video interview with Thorston Overgaard, Stefan Daniel said that basically every part in the M240 was different, with the exception of the rangefinder, which was borrowed from the M9, but with improved accuracy.  He didn't state how the accuracy was improved, and that generated a lot of discussion here, as some experienced a difference (like me) while others did not.

 

Jeff

[mjh]

In an old video interview with Thorston Overgaard, Stefan Daniel said that basically every part in the M240 was different, with the exception of the rangefinder, which was borrowed from the M9, but with improved accuracy.  He didn't state how the accuracy was improved, and that generated a lot of discussion here, as some experienced a difference (like me) while others did not.

I have explained the quite extensive changes made to the rangefinder in LFI 1.2015. The tolerances were cut in half, requiring the engineers to touch virtually every single component of the rangefinder mechanism – of which there are quite a few. This wasn’t introduced with much fanfare at the time but the improvements took a considerable amount of effort.

[Jeff S]

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I have explained the quite extensive changes made to the rangefinder in LFI 1.2015. The tolerances were cut in half, requiring the engineers to touch virtually every single component of the rangefinder mechanism – of which there are quite a few. This wasn’t introduced with much fanfare at the time but the improvements took a considerable amount of effort.

 

Thanks.....haven't seen the LFI article. The (uninformed) consensus on the forum at the time was 'improved tolerances' rather than a new RF, but we of course had no idea of the extent of the changes or the work required.  Based on your brief description here, I guess we should have surmised improved tolerances AND therefore an essentially new RF.  

 

Jeff

[Peter H]

The M (Typ 240) is practically a newly from the ground up designed camera. 

 

 

In one respect this is true, but there is more to it than just the physical components used to make the camera. 

 

The M240 was not designed from scratch, even if all its components were new. It was designed to fulfil precisely the same design-and-function brief as the M9 had been, only more up to date and with a few add-ons. Otherwise, it could have been an SL, or an S, or anything else. But it wasn't, and we know why it wasn't.

[JonPB]

Possibly, if the next M design used a Japanese supplier, the Kumamoto earthquake in April might have impacted Leica's ability to deliver. But, even if it was something else...

 

I do not believe that Leica Camera would not work to advance its bread-and-butter product. Embracing the rapid advance of technology (even given today's slower advance of practical advances) is entirely to the company's benefit. Therefore, I suspect that, for one reason or another, Leica decided that its next generation product isn't ready to ship. This is good for customers of the next generation, as there will be fewer complaints of "beta testing" among new adopters, and perhaps more improvements that the engineers advocated for but which management might have been reluctant to green-light.

 

Perhaps the fact that I can only afford the previous generation of Leica cameras -- and still find them quite delightful -- impacts my assessment. I'm not hoping for Leica to release a new product so that I can buy it. I'm only looking for an announcement as a spectator. Still, my conclusion is that delays, intended or not, will result in a superior end result. Seeing as how we'll likely be dealing with those end results on a daily basis for several years, I'm all in favor of getting it right rather than getting it to schedule.

 

Cheers,

Jon

[Wayne]

Thanks to all for the clarification on meaning of "new Leica."

[Joshua Lowe]

I think it means they're giving the SL more time to lead the charge and that they're using that extra time to do more with the next M than a typical update.  I think there will be fundamental changes.

[jaapv]

If Leica runs true to form, there will be interviews with Leica officials at Photokina. With a bit of  luck there might be more insight in their roadmap for the M system then.

[anickpick]

I think Photokina has lost its importance to camera manufacturers, as in the internet age it is easy to spread information about a new product.

 

So if the new M is not ready by another 6 months or so, it does not make sense to announce it at Photokina.

In this case it indeed makes more sense to release another limited edition, just to make sure the M240 platform is really milked dry.

 

However, I am sure Leica is going to release a new M soon. They won't be able to sell many 'old' Ms in 2017 anymore.

[jaapv]

Isn't "milked dry" a rather unkind expression? I think that "kept in the public eye" is more correct.

Leica never makes vast amounts of money from these special editions, as production runs are quite small and development costs, limited as they may be, still have to be amortized over a few cameras.

The purpose of these special editions is firstly to keep up with tradition -the first ones were the Leica Luxus models from the late 1920ies -  secondly to generate some publicity for the mainstream model.

[Clactonian]

I will pay passing interest to any new or updated M, if or when it surfaces as I did with the Q and SL, but I will not be buying one.

I chose the M240 a couple years back because the specification fulfilled my requirements. It still does and allows me to take satisfying images and gives me a great deal of pleasure in so doing. I will not change it until it breaks or becomes unrepairable. Why would I want to?

The GAS led purchase of a succession of higher spec'd DSLRs over the years has not improved my photography or the ability to print to A3 size. It has just led to an ever growing list of unused features, unnecessary complication, and a dent in my savings.

Happy with my M240 whatever comes next.

[elgenper]

So, what´s the problem?  I´m still using my M 9 and original MM.  They still work like they did when I first opened the boxes, only the M9 is a bit brassed now (and will need a new sensor after the autumn colours are gone).  No plans to "update" them; my own photographic skills are far more important to update...

[Exodies]

Never mind what Leica are going to do without a new M, what is the forum going to do? We've nit-picked the M for over three years; is there still any aspect of it we haven't fretted about? We'll look back on the check battery age as the last gasp of the M typ 240 era.

Perhaps I should buy an SL; there's a lot more going on in those treads.

[lct]

A significant innovation like a digital rangefinder and/or an hybrid viewfinder could explain a delayed announcement better so than whatever disdain for fair schedules i guess but i have no info about that.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[anickpick]

Isn't "milked dry" a rather unkind expression? I think that "kept in the public eye" is more correct.

Leica never makes vast amounts of money from these special editions, as production runs are quite small and development costs, limited as they may be, still have to be amortized over a few cameras.

The purpose of these special editions is firstly to keep up with tradition -the first ones were the Leica Luxus models from the late 1920ies -  secondly to generate some publicity for the mainstream model.

 

 

Well, communication in a language that is not your mother tongue can be tricky: So let me say that I did not mean to be particularly unkind.

My comment was meant to be rather unemotional. Leica makes business decisions based on the same motivations just as most other companies.

Leica's management either wants the company to grow or to become more profitable or both.  Keeping up with tradition is part of their marketing strategy. 

However, I do agree that "kept in the public eye" would have been a more reasonable and adequate expression than "milked dry".

[pgk]

A significant innovation like a digital rangefinder and/or an hybrid viewfinder could explain a delayed announcement better so than whatever disdain for fair schedules i guess but i have no info about that.

 

What exactly is this 'digital rangefinder' idea. How will it work?