Yet again another Leica disappointment

[sortvitt]

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Jeff, that was probably me. I sent in three lenses for a preemptive check&replace after three others had failed. They came back with all-clear, no need to replace AF. One of these failed straight after. I can't think of any other brand I would have cut as much slack, but that did it for me.

[alan.y]

Make a stink with Leica and insist they do a prophylactic repair on your third lens then see how it goes before dumping the whole system.

 

It seems misinformation is being perpetuated here. The user Xiaubauu got his broken plastic gears replaced with metal ones at an unofficial shop in Shanghai. I don't recall reading that Leica itself uses metal gears as a permanent solution to the AF breakage issue.

 

This is all the more worrying--Leica may simply be replacing broken gears with the exact same ones. Thus there may not be such a thing as a "prophylactic" repair. Anecdotal reports about brand-new lenses failing also suggests there has not been a permanent solution, although I cannot recall a report of a lens failing again after being repaired by Leica.

 

Whatever the case, I agree that some sort of official statement by Leica (beyond the promise of free repairs) is in order.

[LocalHero1953]

This link was posted on another thread, that I found helpful. I wonder if Leica S lenses use what Roger Cicala calls the LEM Type 1 mechanism. If so then the only fix is to reglue it once broken, hopefully with a stronger glue. The only real or prophylactic solution would be a total redesign - not a question of changing plastic gears for metal.

 

https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2016/04/a-look-at-electromagnetic-focusing/

[jip]

So I went to Hawaii and brought my Leica S-E and my S70CS

 

I borrowed a S120CS and S24 from Leica and brought it along on my trip.

 

The S24 AF stopped focussing all together but manual it still worked, the S120CS had another problem where I had to remount it over and over, the Leica S-Adapter C which I had bought to use my Contax lenses had the dreaded fault that once the camera goes into sleep it won't work anymore until you turn the camera of and on again yourself, or quickly remount the lens so the contacts lose contact and make contact again.

 

When I returned I told them what happened my S-E also had some problems with a virtual horizon that didn't work and wouldn't calibrate, and crashed quite often..

 

Meaning that of all the 'S products' I have touched the following have had faults:

 

Leica S-E (Typ 006) random errors and a virtual horizon that didn't work and wasn't able to calibrate, crashes every now and then, the know GPS fault in the far northern hemisphere (something they need to fix with a firmware fix).

Leica S 24mm AF fault like we all know too well

Leica S 120mm CS, random faults I can't really explain.

Leica S-Adapter C had the know 'won't wake up problem'

 

The only product I've touched that hasn't had any problems is my 70mm lens.

 

Leica did however repair everything and replaced my Leica S-Adapter C for free of course...

 

Now the S works like it should except for the GPS problem but this is a software problem they should fix with a firmware update which I doubt they will.

 

Maybe we need to start doing a signature list with the problems we have had with our S system which I then hand deliver in person to Leica in Wetzlar.

 

Let me know what you guys think, I just wonder if it is Leica that doesn't know that these problems exist or that they just ignore them.

[jip]

This link was posted on another thread, that I found helpful. I wonder if Leica S lenses use what Roger Cicala calls the LEM Type 1 mechanism. If so then the only fix is to reglue it once broken, hopefully with a stronger glue. The only real or prophylactic solution would be a total redesign - not a question of changing plastic gears for metal.

 

https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2016/04/a-look-at-electromagnetic-focusing/

Leica is using simple DC motors in their S line lenses, the most simple and old school autofocus type available this also explains why they are pretty noise, and what breaks: The gear cogwheel which is small and made of plastic, when there is too much resistance the 'teeth' on the cogwheel break of and the wheel spins freely but no longer moves the optical groups meant for focussing.

 

Very sad they got such great optics but such simple and old school focussing motors... that aren't robust either.

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

So I went to Hawaii and brought my Leica S-E and my S70CS

 

I borrowed a S120CS and S24 from Leica and brought it along on my trip.

 

The S24 AF stopped focussing all together but manual it still worked, the S120CS had another problem where I had to remount it over and over, the Leica S-Adapter C which I had bought to use my Contax lenses had the dreaded fault that once the camera goes into sleep it won't work anymore until you turn the camera of and on again yourself, or quickly remount the lens so the contacts lose contact and make contact again.

 

When I returned I told them what happened my S-E also had some problems with a virtual horizon that didn't work and wouldn't calibrate, and crashed quite often..

 

Meaning that of all the 'S products' I have touched the following have had faults:

 

Leica S-E (Typ 006) random errors and a virtual horizon that didn't work and wasn't able to calibrate, crashes every now and then, the know GPS fault in the far northern hemisphere (something they need to fix with a firmware fix).

Leica S 24mm AF fault like we all know too well

Leica S 120mm CS, random faults I can't really explain.

Leica S-Adapter C had the know 'won't wake up problem'

 

The only product I've touched that hasn't had any problems is my 70mm lens.

 

Leica did however repair everything and replaced my Leica S-Adapter C for free of course...

 

Now the S works like it should except for the GPS problem but this is a software problem they should fix with a firmware update which I doubt they will.

 

Maybe we need to start doing a signature list with the problems we have had with our S system which I then hand deliver in person to Leica in Wetzlar.

 

Let me know what you guys think, I just wonder if it is Leica that doesn't know that these problems exist or that they just ignore them.

You've got my signature.

I'm just spewing that my 120mm CS lens crapped when it did and that it is still not back in KL after handing it in to Leica Malaysia two months ago.

I have and paid for a boudoir model shoot next Tuesday 5 star hotel included and don't have a CS lens needed for the strobe work. Okay I know that I can sync at 125 and that will be enough as long as I shoot everything off a tripod but that in itself spoils the shoot as the shooting isn't spontaneous and that is needed when you are trying to capture a moment.

I will be spending a serious letter to Leica on Monday and asking for an explanation why it can take two frigging months to fix the bloody lens.

I've been reading the Hasselblad forum stuff on various threads and don't see any of this crap on there........... AF frailer, leather covers peeling off, lockups etc etc

One good thing came out of all this bull shiit and that is the focus picknicking that I was using with my crapped out 30mm lenses today shooting a waterfall........ Glad to see that someone actually works

[peterv]

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Anecdotal reports about brand-new lenses failing also suggests there has not been a permanent solution, although I cannot recall a report of a lens failing again after being repaired by Leica.

My 120mm CS is back in Wetzlar now to have the broken AF problem fixed for the second time.

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

My 120mm CS is back in Wetzlar now to have the broken AF problem fixed for the second time.

i didn't want to read frigging that........ OMG why oh why did I not get the H6D :(

[peterv]

i didn't want to read frigging that........ OMG why oh why did I not get the H6D :(

I guess the answer is because you - like - the S system. And not without reason. It's too bad three are some flaws but in general, I wouldn't want to do without my S for the reasons we all know. IQ, optics, look.

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

I guess the answer is because you - like - the S system. And not without reason. It's too bad three are some flaws but in general, I wouldn't want to do without my S for the reasons we all know. IQ, optics, look.

yes Peter your correct but that doesn't make it write

 

 

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[albireo_double]

Perhaps an initial solution for someone in Neil's situation is to get 2-3 Hasselblad H lenses in the focal lengths that they use most (the 100/2.2 and the 3.5/55 mkII seem to be very good, for instance) together with the Leica S-H adapter. You can then still use the S007 body and the H lenses work perfectly with it, just like native Leica lenses, including profiles in LR, autofocus, exif data etc. In that way, you could facilitate your potential migration to the Hasselblad system without losing a ton of cash on the resale of the S007 body. Most of the critical problems in the S line seem to be with the lenses. I've had my share of issues with the S system (70CS and 24 with dead AF motors, horizontal lines in high ISO images taken with Live View on the 007, dead pixels in the S2). I would not buy into the S system if I were a working pro - too unreliable now and too expensive to buy/travel with backup equipment.

[EoinC]

yes Peter your correct but that doesn't make it write

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When you do send your letter to Leica, Neil, I suggest you turn your auto-spell off - Leaving it on may diminish the serious intent.

[Jeff S]

Jeff, that was probably me. I sent in three lenses for a preemptive check&replace after three others had failed. They came back with all-clear, no need to replace AF. One of these failed straight after. I can't think of any other brand I would have cut as much slack, but that did it for me.

 

No, I think it was someone else who actually visited the factory and they wouldn't even look at the lenses that were not broken.  Given that approach, I wonder if your lenses received any examination other than mounting them on a camera to see if the AF worked.

 

Note that the statement published by Leica refers only to lenses that experience a defect...

 

For products affected by this problem, Leica Camera AG offers a free replacement of the autofocus drive unit within the terms of a goodwill arrangement. This goodwill arrangement is independent of the age of the lens. Should this defect occur in one of your S lenses, we recommend that you to send it directly to Leica Customer Care or the authorised Customer Care department of your country’s Leica distributor.

As a premium manufacturer, we consider it our obligation to provide only technically faultless products. We therefore particularly regret that the functions of one of your S lenses could be impaired in any way. We hope that the goodwill arrangement mentioned above will allow us to remedy the problem as soon as possible and rebuild and maintain the trust you have always placed in our brand.

 

(bold added)

 

 

Jeff

[Bill W]

So far I have not had an issue with any of my 5 lens. I would really like to hear from others that have had a lens a long time without issue. I would be curious to know the number of lens sold to the number that have had this issue.

[Jeff S]

So far I have not had an issue with any of my 5 lens. I would really like to hear from others that have had a lens a long time without issue. I would be curious to know the number of lens sold to the number that have had this issue.

 

There are about 6 threads already on the subject.  Some reporting are like you, some are like others here.  Even then, only a small portion of S users probably even follow the forum. Only Leica could know.  We do know that there's enough for Leica to have formally issued a policy statement, which is uncommon, even if it doesn't go far enough for some.

 

Jeff

[relms]

Neil, I feel your frustration.  I sent my S2-P to Leica for sensor replacement in January - yes, January!- and I still do not have it back.  About a month ago, after checking on its status with my Leica dealer, I decided, following the dealer's recommendation, that instead of continuing to wait for repair I would upgrade to the S007 under the upgrade program offered by Leica.  The dealer contacted Leica Germany, stopped the pending repair, and informed them that we would opt for the upgrade program. Leica said okay, but the camera would have to be sent back to the USA, be reprocessed by Leica, then sent back to Germany under a different designation.  Unbelievable!

 

It has now been exactly one month since I requested return of the camera, and - you guessed it! - I have not received it, and I have had no contact from Leica.  I make weekly inquiries of my dealer, but he keeps telling me that he has heard nothing from Leica.  In the meantime I have learned that my backup camera, an S006, has sensor corrosion, and that it should be sent in for repair, as well.  Fat chance of that.

 

Like you, I have tried to be loyal to the brand, but I have experienced one disappointment after another.  This does not bode well for Leica's future.  If it is happing to you and me it is happening to others.  I fear that the Leica ship is sinking, and I am starting to look for a way to get off of it.

 

-Robert

[ynp]

Perhaps an initial solution for someone in Neil's situation is to get 2-3 Hasselblad H lenses in the focal lengths that they use most (the 100/2.2 and the 3.5/55 mkII seem to be very good, for instance) together with the Leica S-H adapter. You can then still use the S007 body and the H lenses work perfectly with it, just like native Leica lenses, including profiles in LR, autofocus, exif data etc. In that way, you could facilitate your potential migration to the Hasselblad system without losing a ton of cash on the resale of the S007 body. Most of the critical problems in the S line seem to be with the lenses. I've had my share of issues with the S system (70CS and 24 with dead AF motors, horizontal lines in high ISO images taken with Live View on the 007, dead pixels in the S2). I would not buy into the S system if I were a working pro - too unreliable now and too expensive to buy/travel with backup equipment.

You are spot on.

I don't trust Leica S-lenses anymore. I had an AF broken down on two of my lenses. I spent three months to select a nice 120mm makro and found a demo lens. Is faulted in one week. My S24mm had the same problem during a shoot in Burma. I decided to leave it as it is, I don't need the autofocus anyway. I have the S-Zoom and S100/2 and they work so far. I bought the Makro again online and I am not happy about the sharpness of lens and maybe I will have to send it to Leica.

 

The rest of my lenses are a mix of Contax 645 and Hasselblad HC. I am slowly building my stock of HC and HCD lenses and saved enough to get the HC 120 mm. Macro-II.

 

I will be waiting till Photokina and we will decide what to buy Later this year. Because my Sinar equipment was stolen, and because I lost confidence in Leica, I feel unusually liberated. No blind loyalty anymore.

 

I will leave my S2-P as a personal camera, with the HC50-II and HC120-II it shall cover the most of my studio needs and I want to stay with the S-Summicron for a fun of using this marvel. My Contax 120mm Makro also stays. I have paid for those and it will cost me nothing to use them before they break.

 

Leica declared that this Photokina is about professional equipment. We will see. But I will be testing the 50mpx multi shot back from Hasselblad later this year regardless.

 

Yevgeny

 

 

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[Guest]

Guess I will add my thoughts ... as I have left the S system for the third and final time.

 

Recently developed an issue with my S 006 sensor ... couple of round trips to the dealer 

before he found it and realized I am not completely out of my mind. He bailed me out of the camera

and I traded out of all of it ... huge loss but no waiting for months for Leica to sort it out.

 

Stellar results from the system when it works but in my opinion it is not worth the inconvenient and unprofessional

support system that has become the Leica default. Live in Germany ... camera is back in two weeks ... the US it

can be up to six months with three the stated norm from those who have responded. With no cogent communication 

from Leica to those who have entrusted their cameras and their practice and reputation.

 

I am not convinced that Hasselblad nor Phase have stellar support but it would be hard for them to fall to 

Leica's level at the present time.

 

So I will accept a different level of imaging ... which will be more than adequate for my needs ... now the 

question is from whom. There are a lot of very good options these days ... and with a modicum of post

processing skills any of them are a viable option.

 

Leica has derailed a great concept with its poor implementation ... sensors with corrosion issues and AF failures

at a severe level ... hope they can turn this around ... but I for one will not be supporting their dysfunctional S program.

 

So many choices that avoid all this wasted energy and stress.

 

Regards,

 

Bob

[R3D-D0T]

People who are leaving the S line... What MF system are you looking to replace it with?

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[MarkP]

I think it's about time Leica responded to this publicly as they responded to the M sensor corrosion issue (and to some extent the 50 APO-Summicron flare issue).  The silence is deafening.

 

I wouldn't touch an S at this time irrespective of it's IQ. After all, the best camera I have is the one I have with me. If I don't have the S with me because its being repaired with a turnaround time from the Antipodes of 3 to 6 months it's the worst camera I have.