fotografr Posted June 10, 2007 Share #1 Posted June 10, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) To Andreas and others: I recently posted some equipment for sale as a favor to a friend who has no idea where to sell it himself. I did not list the equipment here until I was informed it was okay to do so. Apparently some people were offended to see Leica equipment listed for sale here. I had no intention to offend or go against the rules, so please just remove the entire thread and accept my apologies for starting it in the first place. To anyone who took offense at the fact I did not respond quickly enough to offers, I will only say I had no idea how inundated I would be with emails about this stuff, and I do have a life outside of this forum. I would have gotten around to it eventually, but have not had time at this point to get back to everyone. Specifically to Plasticman, I will say the reason I did not respond to your offer was that I assumed it was a joke because it was so absurdly low. Cheers, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 10, 2007 Posted June 10, 2007 Hi fotografr, Take a look here Buy/Sell Clarification. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
robert_parker Posted June 10, 2007 Share #2 Posted June 10, 2007 Maybe the experience underlines that there is a need for a separate 'sales' section, so people who want to look at items can do so and those who don't can utilise the other parts of the forum - I think maybe the idea of PM only after the advert is not a bad thing though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted June 10, 2007 Share #3 Posted June 10, 2007 Hi Robert, that's exactly what Andreas is working on. According to Andreas that's a couple of weeks away. I'm guessing that this was why he said it was ok for Brent to mention the kit that was for sale as an 'unofficial' ad. As for post ad correspondence and horse trading, I agree that's best by PM or email. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted June 10, 2007 Author Share #4 Posted June 10, 2007 I agree that any price haggling should be done by PM or email, but I really don't know why the whole idea of a buy/sell section bothers some people so much. All we are trying to do is hook up people who have excess Leica equipment with others who are looking for some. How this somehow "soils" the forum is beyond my comprehension. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted June 10, 2007 Share #5 Posted June 10, 2007 Other collectors' and users' fora have separate sales forums ... e.g. watch collectors' fora ... and they have their own ways of publishing feedback ... and of discouraging dealers ... so that only bona fide collectors can buy and sell. I participate in a watch collectors' forum and dealers often get short changed there i.e. they are told where to go and what to do with their offers ... in as polite a way as is possible of course ... and by dealers I mean the ruthless non-high street dealers who hang around internet sites seeking opportunities ... but who soon get found out. Dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted June 11, 2007 Author Share #6 Posted June 11, 2007 Other collectors' and users' fora have separate sales forums ... e.g. watch collectors' fora ... and they have their own ways of publishing feedback ... and of discouraging dealers ... so that only bona fide collectors can buy and sell. I participate in a watch collectors' forum and dealers often get short changed there i.e. they are told where to go and what to do with their offers ... in as polite a way as is possible of course ... and by dealers I mean the ruthless non-high street dealers who hang around internet sites seeking opportunities ... but who soon get found out. Dunk That's a good argument for having a buy/sell section here. When someone has been posting images and comments on this forum for several months or years, it's probably a safe assumption they are not the unscrupulous dealers you are referring to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticman Posted June 11, 2007 Share #7 Posted June 11, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) the reason I did not respond to your offer was that I assumed it was a joke because it was so absurdly low. Brent - I don't really know why you're bringing this whole issue up again in a public forum, which I thought was bad form in the first place. As I said on the original thread, the initial offer was made on the basis that you said the lens was not in as good condition as the one we looked at for reference on the RFF classifieds. We don't need to go into figures again here, because it seems that people get offended, but if you like we can discuss the price again - if the lens is not sold yet, that is. A point to bear in mind is that there is one rather poor image of the lens to go on so far, where the condition doesn't look to be A+, and no view of the glass. What's more your friend apparently didn't seem to know the difference between a Super Angulon and an Elmarit 21 - which i thought maybe didn't bode so well for their care and use of the lenses... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eoin Posted June 11, 2007 Share #8 Posted June 11, 2007 Not siding with anyone, I think it would be an idea in the future to adopt a policy of no "price police" or price discussion to coin a phrase from another buy & sell forum. Discussions about price. offers, trades should be sent via email or PM and should remain between the two parties. Also it would be reasonable to expect the seller to list an expected price or opt for the auction method. I'm sure Andreas will have put some consideration into this when our own Buy & Sell section goes live. Speaking of which, Andreas, would it not be better to allow a wider beta test of "non official sales" to be preformed via the Buy & sell form rather than getting some members backs up when they see unofficial for sale postings here?. Just a thought!. In the meantime, I'm sure it's a misunderstanding of intention so let's not fall out over it. Peace all! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticman Posted June 11, 2007 Share #9 Posted June 11, 2007 In the meantime, I'm sure it's a misunderstanding of intention so let's not fall out over it. Peace all! All excellent advice! I'm sure, like i said before, that someone'll buy the lenses for a good price, but when the seller asks for 'offers' then I don't see that any of them need to be held up for publiic ridicule, imho - otherwise they can at the very least give a guide price. Seems to me like the effort needed to press 'reply to PM' is about equivalent to the effort it took to post a reply to the original thread. What's more this isn't a case of some special sensitivity - everyone's future negotiating credibility is a little at stake when one of the other forum members makes comments like the above. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted June 11, 2007 Author Share #10 Posted June 11, 2007 What a mess one can get into when trying to do someone a favor. I am making nothing for doing these transactions. I just thought I could do a nice thing by connecting people who might be looking for some used equipment with my friend who had some he wanted to sell. It has ended up taking hours of my time doing back and forth emails and making new photos of the items being sold. With the exception of the people who ended up buying some of the lenses, the net result of all this seems to have only been to create a lot of hard feelings. Lesson learned here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted June 11, 2007 Share #11 Posted June 11, 2007 ...the net result of all this seems to have only been to create a lot of hard feelings. Lesson learned here. Brent, you have my sympathy. I entirely appreciate that you approached this with the best of intentions. I freely admit that I am one of those who are against the introduction of a buy/sell sub-forum here, and I feel that you have fallen foul of - and therefore demonstrated - one of my objections. As soon as you introduce commercial discussions, no matter how well conducted, or well intended, you change the nature of the forum, and you can only do so for the worst. I appreciate that I may be in the minority here, but I'd rather keep trading in those places designed for it. Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron110n Posted June 12, 2007 Share #12 Posted June 12, 2007 I freely admit that I am one of those who are against the introduction of a buy/sell sub-forum here There is a saying, Never sell a used car to a friend. -Ron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted June 12, 2007 Share #13 Posted June 12, 2007 Presumably the proper 'for sale' forum will be a list of items only i.e. no opportunity to post questions or responses etc., but its easy to imagine such conversations appearing in the main forums; "I bought a lens from xxxxx who said it was mint, but I can see a speck of dust and he won't take it back.........." etc., etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafael_macia Posted June 13, 2007 Share #14 Posted June 13, 2007 "Too much talking, like too much thinking,destroys the power of actions.", "Morals & Dogma", Albert Pike, 1871 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted June 13, 2007 Share #15 Posted June 13, 2007 Presumably the proper 'for sale' forum will be a list of items only i.e. no opportunity to post questions or responses etc., but its easy to imagine such conversations appearing in the main forums; "I bought a lens from xxxxx who said it was mint, but I can see a speck of dust and he won't take it back.........." etc., etc. Here is a well run sales forum http://www.tz-uk.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=3&sid=d9f38e2ea9d526a967847949a1b67441 where forum members can ask questions ... post FS sales adverts ... WTB adverts ... WTT or FSOT adverts ... and items listed include a few non-forum goods especially when members wish to do a trade/swap .. most of the ads are for sales ... or exchanges with cash adjustments ... and PAYPAL eases transactions ... ok it is for watches and not cameras but might give forumers here some food for thought as to what could be offered on this forum. Dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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