dritz Posted July 12, 2016 Share #1 Posted July 12, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) The topic "State of the S" (http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/258959-state-of-s/) contains allusions to a new S perhaps as soon as Photokina this September. Sounds great BUT the S007 started shipping only last September. Why do we think that Leica would announce a new version just a year after shipping the current version? The market pressures seem just two: (1) competitors offering improved resolution and performance (competing in quality), and (2) average price of MF digital keeps dropping (competing in price). Conjecture... I can understand an S008 announcement (and shipping >6 months later) only if a substantially higher resolution version of the S007 is combined with an a reduced price for the S007. Basically, the S007 becomes the *new* S-E. That would unlock the sales gates for the S007 as those of us waiting (such as myself), and give those of us who have already spent a fortune on lenses (a.k.a. "investors") confirmation of the wisdom in our investment. Leica needs to demonstrate their commitment to the S system by visible effort to build S momentum. Hasselblad and PhaseOne have fired shots over Leica's bow. Dean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 12, 2016 Posted July 12, 2016 Hi dritz, Take a look here S007 --> S008 timing. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
albertknappmd Posted July 12, 2016 Share #2 Posted July 12, 2016 Just got my 007 and this would be depressing... However let us see.. Albert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS Posted July 12, 2016 Share #3 Posted July 12, 2016 Just got my 007 and this would be depressing... However let us see.. Albert no need to be depressed alone Albert. I'm loving my new S007 and will enjoy the X1D as soon as one becomes available. Albert. Did you go from 006 to 007 and if so what is it that floats your boat with the upgrade? [emoji3][emoji3][emoji3] Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LorenzoLandini Posted July 12, 2016 Share #4 Posted July 12, 2016 I guess there will be many folks out there to be disappointed if the 008 comes out at the upcoming Photokina. The S is not a consumer camera that requires update every one or two years, the audience of this system demands quality and durability and by the time such camera gets shipped even a professional would not have a 007 completely depreciated from an accounting perspective to justify the upgrade. Coming from large format film and only recently moving into digital I am finding digital systems to be quite expensive given how fast everything becomes obsolete. Back in the days as much as an M system could have been expensive, it was used for 10+ years, a Linhof even for 20+ years. Here we are contemplating an even more expensive medium format system becoming obsolete in 24 months... this is insane to me... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS Posted July 12, 2016 Share #5 Posted July 12, 2016 I guess there will be many folks out there to be disappointed if the 008 comes out at the upcoming Photokina. The S is not a consumer camera that requires update every one or two years, the audience of this system demands quality and durability and by the time such camera gets shipped even a professional would not have a 007 completely depreciated from an accounting perspective to justify the upgrade. Coming from large format film and only recently moving into digital I am finding digital systems to be quite expensive given how fast everything becomes obsolete. Back in the days as much as an M system could have been expensive, it was used for 10+ years, a Linhof even for 20+ years. Here we are contemplating an even more expensive medium format system becoming obsolete in 24 months... this is insane to me... Just how much better can it get without getting plastic. The pictures I get from my Leica S are amazing, I'm in the camp that they don't get better than this...... Period Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A miller Posted July 12, 2016 Share #6 Posted July 12, 2016 Just how much better can it get without getting plastic. The pictures I get from my Leica S are amazing, I'm in the camp that they don't get better than this...... Period You are in the wrong camp Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS Posted July 12, 2016 Share #7 Posted July 12, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) You are in the wrong camp no sir.... We're in the right camp Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
djmay Posted July 12, 2016 Share #8 Posted July 12, 2016 With Leica's inability to respond quickly to service problems, I am not going to jump with a new product. Leica needs to prove they can support the product. Sent from my GT-I8190 using Tapatalk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted July 12, 2016 Share #9 Posted July 12, 2016 The pictures I get from my Leica S are amazing, I'm in the camp that they don't get better than this...... Period Funny, Neil. You switched from the 006 to the 007 without any extensive testing. No sooner had you done that and the X1D got your attention...despite EVF, which I thought you didn't like. What makes you think the next lighter super megapixel big sensor machine won't make you jump just the same? I bet you'll even be enthused by the next magic M. C'mon, we need the entertainment. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted July 13, 2016 Share #10 Posted July 13, 2016 Well everything about a replacement for the S (Typ 007) is just speculation and guessing of course. No-one outside of Leica Camera or any hypothetical testers actually knows. Photokina is only some weeks away so I guess we will hear or not hear about any new product announcement then, which would most likely be not the same as any actual availability!You can really frustrate yourself trying to work out possible timing or consequences on hypothetical cameras I have shot 10,000 frames with my S (Typ 007) thus far. it does a superb job, who knows when any replacement might actually arrive? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RVB Posted July 13, 2016 Share #11 Posted July 13, 2016 The topic "State of the S" (http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/258959-state-of-s/) contains allusions to a new S perhaps as soon as Photokina this September. Sounds great BUT the S007 started shipping only last September. Why do we think that Leica would announce a new version just a year after shipping the current version? The market pressures seem just two: (1) competitors offering improved resolution and performance (competing in quality), and (2) average price of MF digital keeps dropping (competing in price). Conjecture... I can understand an S008 announcement (and shipping >6 months later) only if a substantially higher resolution version of the S007 is combined with an a reduced price for the S007. Basically, the S007 becomes the *new* S-E. That would unlock the sales gates for the S007 as those of us waiting (such as myself), and give those of us who have already spent a fortune on lenses (a.k.a. "investors") confirmation of the wisdom in our investment. Leica needs to demonstrate their commitment to the S system by visible effort to build S momentum. Hasselblad and PhaseOne have fired shots over Leica's bow. Dean Leica need to add IBIS and pixel shift technology to the next S, and a sensor with even more DR and minimum 50mp,preferably 60 or 70mp, otherwise there isn't much point in another S being released, and even higher res on the rear LCD would be nice (OLED too if possible and pure leaf shutter in CS mode.) Would anyone like to see Dual CF fast ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xiaubauu2009 Posted July 13, 2016 Share #12 Posted July 13, 2016 Just update the internal mechanics and component of the S lens and provide current owner a solution to update their current setup. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS Posted July 13, 2016 Share #13 Posted July 13, 2016 Funny, Neil. You switched from the 006 to the 007 without any extensive testing. No sooner had you done that and the X1D got your attention...despite EVF, which I thought you didn't like. What makes you think the next lighter super megapixel big sensor machine won't make you jump just the same? I bet you'll even be enthused by the next magic M. C'mon, we need the entertainment. Jeff Good morning Jeff Without a doubt the S006/007 produce amazing pictures in the right persons hands........period. But its still a heavy beast of a thing to lug around town (I did it the second day in Zurich and it wasn't much fun). I used my Leica Q after that for a walk about camera, but for me anyway the Q , although it takes nice pictures its limited by its fixed 28mm lens. So that is why I am warming to the X1D. My wife uses a A7??? and I believe the EVF in that camera is the same as the one in the X1D. You are correct in saying I don't like EVF's but I also don't like to have to use a key to start my car but unfortunately my car does not come with the keyless feature..........its just a minor thing. At the end of the day its all about how the files turn out after passing through a printer. Unless the new M has a 47 x 38 inch sensor I am not interested in the M. I just looked out of the hotel room window and it looks like we could have a nice morning of shooting the Dolomites :) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS Posted July 13, 2016 Share #14 Posted July 13, 2016 I have shot 10,000 frames with my S (Typ 007) thus far. it does a superb job, who knows when any replacement might actually arrive? Geoff probably after you have shot 20,000 frames, or maybe 33000 frames :) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted July 13, 2016 Share #15 Posted July 13, 2016 Having just bought my first S camera I'm not concerned because it's a used S2 Buy the time I can afford/justify the S008 the S009 will have been announced. And even if Leica do announce at Photokina it'll be a year before it's available and another before the backorders settle down. Normal for Leica and even becoming normal for nikon and canon pro bodies. Plenty of time to wear out your current camera. Gordon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted July 13, 2016 Share #16 Posted July 13, 2016 The 37MP S2 came out in 2009. The 37MP S came shipped in 2015. I would say an upgrade in resolution is long overdue for a medium format competitor. I want the S, I prefer the lenses and the camera, but I need what the Blad H6D-100 (or Phase One XF-100 but I have a large kit of Blad H lenses) gives and I would likely sell my M kit for the X1D as my small camera. I would be happy with a 60MP S but I'm not waiting around for one for a couple more years in the hope it comes, if ever, which is certainly questionable. While I don't think we will see a 008 at Photokina, I have seen a recent influx of 007's show up on dealers ebay sites all on the same day, a little while back, and at a reduced rate - so who knows. What Leica could do is introduce a new S-E, the 007, and package it so it is competitive with the Blad X-1D pricing. That may hold me off for a while. In this event I might buy it and wait in hope for a high res S in a year later or so. IMO, Leica needs to play catch up and either way I will be making a decision because I've waited for Leica to provide a high res option for as long as I can. What bugs me though is even if they come out with a 60MP version, it will likely be another 8 years before they catch up to where the competition is now at 100MP. Do I really want a system that is locked into to obsolescence like that for the future? Small formats are jumping up in quality and at a much reduced rate. The 5DS R is really very good. The Sony a7R2 matches and perhaps slightly bests the Phase One P45+, the Nikon may up to 72MP if the Sony goes that way - these are the reasons why I wonder if the S will die off altogether, and Leica gives us nothing to tell. I certainly don't have any confidence, at all, in investing in an S system - from a business perspective it feels like an unwise decision. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EoinC Posted July 13, 2016 Share #17 Posted July 13, 2016 ...but I need what the Blad H6D-100 (or Phase One XF-100 but I have a large kit of Blad H lenses) gives... Are you sure you're not confusing need with want, Paul? If need is need, then you must beg, buy, or steal a H6D-100 or a PhaseOne XF-100, as need is immediate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted July 13, 2016 Share #18 Posted July 13, 2016 Are you sure you're not confusing need with want, Paul? If need is need, then you must beg, buy, or steal a H6D-100 or a PhaseOne XF-100, as need is immediate. I am very sure I'm not confusing need and want. I have the immediate covered. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom0511 Posted July 13, 2016 Share #19 Posted July 13, 2016 I am also happy with the S007 how it is, but I also see how Leica is under some pressure from other brands offering more MP. On the other side if product cycles get too short, and seeing the depreciation with each product update, customers might cancel and stay out of the game and buy just every second update. It is hard enough when our S006 which were around 15k in price are now sold for 6-8k slightly used 3 years later. If this happens with the S007 now in 1,5 years ... not great. Maybe they offer a second high resolution version (like the Nikon D3 and D3x once did). Or maybe a smaller EVF body like the X1D but with a better EVF like the SL. Anyways, I am still so happy with both the M type 240 and also the S007 that I dont need an upgrade of either camera. If upgrades start come every 1,5 years I will probably start to buy used 2nd generation cameras. Would save me a lot of money. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertknappmd Posted July 13, 2016 Share #20 Posted July 13, 2016 no need to be depressed alone Albert. I'm loving my new S007 and will enjoy the X1D as soon as one becomes available. Albert. Did you go from 006 to 007 and if so what is it that floats your boat with the upgrade? [emoji3][emoji3][emoji3] Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Neil- I made the transition as I needed the higher ISO that the 007 brings.. It has made a big difference.. Albert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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