ralphh Posted July 5, 2016 Share #1 Posted July 5, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) I used to think that digital Leica's were ridiculous, and the people who owned them either crazy or more interested in polishing than photography. I considered my DLSRs to be superior. There was still that mystique. I remember looking at them in camera shops thinking they looked pretty sexy, but not something I actually wanted to own or use. I use a 5DIII for my work (studio portraits) but I have no interest in lugging it around out and about these days and I bought a medium format film range finder for hiking landscape trips (just as a hobby), but I got fed up with the hassle and expense of shooting 6x9 film, and started to think about using a digital M for landscapes as I'd enjoyed a lens with a proper scale on it very much. I ended up up buying a typ 240 thinking I'd use it 100% as a hiking camera, but then I discovered just how amazing a digital M is, and mine is carried almost everywhere with me now. It's such a wonderful instrument to use that it's given me a whole new love of photographing my family life outside of shooting formal portraits. It's pleasant to carry, it can come to dinner without annoying my wife and it produces amazing images to boot. I was never really into taking photos of our every day life (much to the annoyance of my wife), but now im photographing all the time. I love it and I'd go as far as to say it's the worlds best digital camera, because it's a real camera for someone who just wants to enjoy photography without all the fuss and hype and nonsense that normally goes with modern photography. I wouldnt use use it in my studio on a daily basis - im pretty sure it would annoy me after a while, but as a personal camera for a working professional, it's beyond wonderful. When I got my 5DIII about 3 years ago, I realised it was the first camera i'd ever owned that was so good, and so complete as a camera, I'd use it until it wore out. I still feel that way. There is nothing that Canon could add that would make me upgrade (except a tea dispenser maybe). When I got my 240 I realised it was so good that I hope it never does where out! I could happily use this camera forever. A 2 year old picked up my 5DIII the other day (with 85mm f1.2 attached) and dropped it - hard. It rolled a long way across my wooden floor before it came to a stop. I shrugged. I guessed it would probably be fine, but more than that, these days I just feel like it's an insured asset of my business. A great tool, but still just a tool. My Leica is MY camera and I would be in tears of a child threw it on the floor, even though I'm sure it'd be fine too. Anyway, I'm sorry I thought you were all nuts. It's hard to understand from the outside... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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Peter Kilmister Posted July 5, 2016 Share #2 Posted July 5, 2016 @ralphh: What a great summary. I loved my old Nikon film camera which was manual focus. When I moved to digital I tried many variations but they were all AF and huge. Why does AF have to be so bulky? Then I discovered Leica M. The road to Tarsus moment arrived. Scales dropped from my eyes. At last I had discovered a camera where I was in control again. OK, it is not perfect for every occasion. All the same it is light, quiet, unobtrusive, and gorgeous to use. Thank you for your comments ... and no need to feel sorry. Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailwagger Posted July 5, 2016 Share #3 Posted July 5, 2016 I used to think that digital Leica's were ridiculous, and the people who owned them either crazy or more interested in polishing than photography. I considered my DLSRs to be superior. There was still that mystique. I remember looking at them in camera shops thinking they looked pretty sexy, but not something I actually wanted to own or use. ... Anyway, I'm sorry I thought you were all nuts. It's hard to understand from the outside... Nicely stated. You're certainly not alone in having felt this way prior to actually experiencing a Leica. I'll admit to being a complete ass in my opinions on the M prior to owning it. On paper and in the modern context, the camera doesn't make a whole heck of a lot of sense. It's easily criticized for its lack of features and less than state of the art technology, particularly given the price tag. But some things are better experienced than explained. Which is somewhat why IMO theres no need for anyone so smitten to apologize for past belief. My reward for thinking the camera was no more than a bourgeois babble has been the stinging sense that a significant portion of my photographic life has been wasted or at least diminished by not having gotten here sooner. Thats punishment enough. All the best! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bocaburger Posted July 7, 2016 Share #4 Posted July 7, 2016 I've been shooting with Leica since the 70s, so moving into the digitals was natural for me. As a travel camera I have always gravitated toward the Leica, I'm familiar with it like second-nature. The M240 has everything I could want, and I have no plans to upgrade. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fotofanatiker Posted July 9, 2016 Share #5 Posted July 9, 2016 I'm sorry I thought you were all nuts. But we are... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
icqcq Posted July 9, 2016 Share #6 Posted July 9, 2016 We are going to have to have a serious chat about your choice of assistants, although more than once I myself was tempted to throw my Canon down on a hard floor and roll it straight out the door.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralphh Posted July 9, 2016 Author Share #7 Posted July 9, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) I used the want to throw the 5DII out the window a lot when using it with the 85 f1.2, but I don't think I've ever suffered any frustration of any kind with the mk 3. It just goes. Amazing camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denys Posted July 9, 2016 Share #8 Posted July 9, 2016 Welcome to the forum - and no need to say "sorry"! Of course you are right that lots of people don't 'get' Leica. By Leica I mean the rangefinder models, both film and digital. I was lucky enough to use a film one (M4-P) before turning digital, so the basic 'picture taking' operation is much the same..nothing really new to learn. I do have a DSLR and when I take it away on holiday I always pack the instruction manual 'just in case'..maybe that's a reflection of my learning ability, but it's worrying! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Almulla Posted July 9, 2016 Share #9 Posted July 9, 2016 I love it and I'd go as far as to say it's the worlds best digital camera, because it's a real camera for someone who just wants to enjoy photography without all the fuss and hype and nonsense that normally goes with modern photography. ........ Anyway, I'm sorry I thought you were all nuts. It's hard to understand from the outside... Welcome aboard. Nothing to forgive, you are one of us now. Yes its the "simplicity" no hassle approach which gets you. Using any other camera with aperture or shutter priority could accomplish the same but wouldn't feel the same. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echo63 Posted July 10, 2016 Share #10 Posted July 10, 2016 I was the same, until i started lugging a pair of 1D bodies around for work. Then i wanted a small camera i could take everywhere, the X100 was close, but had some minor niggles that really irritated me. So at the suggestion of my local camera shop, i put a card in a M-E and took some pictures around the store. I fell in love, a camera that got out of the way and just let me work. I then had to figure out how to fund it. A salary sacrifice** through work got me an M240 and 50mm summarit. Most people wont want to learn to use an M, preferring to use a modern automated camera. For those of us that are willing to pay a fortune for a camera with minimal automation, we get an amazing image making tool. Now that i have mine, you can fight my ghost for the chance to pry it from my cold dead fingers... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jto555 Posted July 10, 2016 Share #11 Posted July 10, 2016 But we are... What do you mean??? I'm not nuts, but my other personality is... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
menos I M6 Posted July 11, 2016 Share #12 Posted July 11, 2016 Many who have started using a Leica M for the first time have experienced that revelation - myself included. One hears very often that this and that DSLR system has higher resolving sensors, better battery life, more sophisticated meters, better live view, faster read/write speeds to card, more buttons, bigger displays, longer lenses, more zooms, closer focussing, … Well I still have my Nikon system, I used before I bought a Leica M6 as my first Leica some time ago. I only grab a Nikon or any SLR for that matter when it absolutely positively delivers better results than I could get with a Leica M. The Leica M is always the first camera I grab. It's not about more features for the money - it's about the fact that a Leica M has ALL photography relevant settings in a most focussed way designed into it, so it becomes the easiest, fastest and most reliable camera one can have once you get used to it. I hate fiddling with the many different (necessary) focus modes in my Nikons or the many buttons and the lack of a proper shutter speed dial. Everything that is wrong with modern DSLRs seems to be right with the Leica M. … and we didn't even start to talk about the lenses … the lenses which are the biggest reason to use a Leica M. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralphh Posted July 11, 2016 Author Share #13 Posted July 11, 2016 That's not always the case with Canon lenses - Canon do have some real gems, like the 85L - it's legendary for good reason. I know it's a different FL, but my Canon 85L is sharper at every aperture than any of my Leica lenses, goes f1.2 and has better bokeh. That said, the 85L is very expensive for a DSLR prime (£1500) and probably 6x heavier. I'd certainly rather carry around my Leica, but for pure image quality, none of my leica lenses (28mm elmarit, 50mm summarit, 90mm elmarit macro) can match my 85L. Would be interesting to compare it to the 90mm summicron. I suspect they'd be similar. If anyone live near me (Kent, UK) and has one get in touch! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
menos I M6 Posted July 11, 2016 Share #14 Posted July 11, 2016 Oh Ralph, that is not what I meant about "one would want to shoot the Leica M system for the lenses". By no means does it mean other manufacturers do not have some wonderful offerings. I myself truly love the Nikon SLR system (I am sure Canon's equivalent is in no way worse in it's offering). My 24/1.4 Nikkon AF-S positively murders the three times as costly Leica 24/1.4 in optical performance. My favorite Nikon lens I still keep the system for is a 300/2.8 AF-S VR - Leica simply does not have any equivalent to this legendary lens anymore (surely Canon's variant is no less as spectacular). In the early 70's Nikon introduced the 58/1.2 Noct Nikkor - a lens outperforming any other of it's peers, including Leica's Noctilux back then. Nikon had some legendary hallmark lenses during it's entire history, making a point of outperforming lenses by the best manufacturers (including Leitz), like the 50/1.5 (and later 1.4), the 35/1.8 W-Nikkor, the 85/1.5, 105/2.5, later 50/1.4 Millennium Nikkor (which in a reproduction with more modern coatings even performs on a level with lenses, Leica made 50 years after it's introduction!), … and the list goes on. My comment simply repeated the common agreement across these pages that the true joy in the Leica M system is the wonderful performance of Leica's lenses in such a small sized lightweight system. In no way does it discredit other manufacturers achievements. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralphh Posted July 11, 2016 Author Share #15 Posted July 11, 2016 Fair enough - I miss understood, and I completely agree with you. There's too much talk on the internet about how Leica lenses are the "best" optically, which was probably more true in 1960 than it is now. As you correctly point out, the Leica lenses are wonderfully made and wonderful to use, combined with being so small - which is why I like my M so much. Like I said - i'd much rather carry my Leica than my Canon. My 5D literally never leaves my studio now as where my Leica is always with me, and as they say, the best camera is the one you have with you Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CYBORA Posted July 11, 2016 Share #16 Posted July 11, 2016 After buying the M 262, I have never left my house without a bag having the M inside Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 11, 2016 Share #17 Posted July 11, 2016 Fair enough - I miss understood, and I completely agree with you. There's too much talk on the internet about how Leica lenses are the "best" optically, which was probably more true in 1960 than it is now. It wasn't true then either. There were Zeiss, Canon and Nikon offerings of more than excellent quality back then as well. However, Leica lenses are fantastically good considering the design restraints - that Nikkor 24/1.4 may "murder" the Summilux - I doubt it - the rendering of the Summilux is unsurpassed IMO, but no matter, look at the relative size. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
menos I M6 Posted July 11, 2016 Share #18 Posted July 11, 2016 It wasn't true then either. There were Zeiss, Canon and Nikon offerings of more than excellent quality back then as well. However, Leica lenses are fantastically good considering the design restraints - that Nikkor 24/1.4 may "murder" the Summilux - I doubt it - the rendering of the Summilux is unsurpassed IMO, but no matter, look at the relative size. There is no one lens maker who owns the monopoly of best lenses, as has been pointed out, hence I love them all (seriously there really is no one single maker that comes to my mind, I would state as I wouldn't find anything likable). I much prefer a Leica M rangefinder body and the variety of vintage and contemporary lenses that suits my mood and couldn't be more happier. Regarding the 24/1.4 Nikkor - well Jaap, believe it, it indeed does murder the 24 Summilux (it was quite a sensation when it was released just a few years ago and is still considered one if not the best of it's kind). To all fairness one has to give Leica the benefit of how they fit a lens almost matching it's performance in such a small form factor (although of course it does not have to clear the mirror box of a SLR) ;-) I cannot compare it directly to a 24/1.4 anymore but it is surprisingly not that much larger than the 21 Summilux and certainly not significantly heavier. It is also one of the few modern Nikkor lenses developed and released before the 36MP digital sensors were introduced and yet it was one of the very few that performed flawlessly on those sensors (still does). If you shoot Nikon and like wide angle lenses, it is one of the must have lenses indeed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 11, 2016 Share #19 Posted July 11, 2016 No reason to disbelieve you, but maybe "murder" is a bit of hyperbole in the stratosphere of lens design ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Barnack Posted July 12, 2016 Share #20 Posted July 12, 2016 Anyway, I'm sorry I thought you were all nuts. It's hard to understand from the outside... The Leica M is not for everyone; a lot of photographers don't get it. I used to be one of them; not any more. I don't own even one film or digital SLR any longer - I traded off all my Nikon gear to finance my first digital M, the M240. I don't miss my Nikon gear; I wasn't using it anyway. I was always making photographs with my film MP and my M4-P. My signature line tells the tale of the Leica M "thing." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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