Leica SL or Hasselblad X1D

[meerec]

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A significant part of the attraction of the SL is that it takes M lenses well.  If the magic camera had done that, and there was a significant price benefit, I would have thought that you would have got a good degree of enthusiasm.

Agree. Because I came from Canon to SL for the very reason: I wanted to shoot with the M glass. On the way I tried some Magic Cameras in the form of Fuji XT-1, then two Sony A7's and finally SL. And many more M glass at the end I got too

[steppenw0lf]

Yes, interesting question but doesn't the same apply to Leica too? If the Leica SL had been introduced by another company exactly as is, the same quality and with the same lenses, but branded as "Lucky SL" or "Magic Camera" and made in China, would all the current enthusiasts be quite so enthusiastic?

 

The SL builds upon the R and M lenses (at least for me), so it is technically related to the Leica systems, even if it came from a different source. Closer than any other camera. If the SL lenses came from a different source - I would probably not buy many of them - here the quality and not the name are critical. (and how they are compared to the R lenses). I very much doubt that the lenses would be the same in this case.

During the first few months of the SL introduction, almost everybody was critisizing Leica for this product - so the name was rather a handicap. (I remember the meanest comment was "not worth/fit to be called a Leica".)

 

The 44x33 systems are new creations, with almost no connection to existing gear. So where do they belong ? It can be freely defined. Why do many here prefer X1D over GFX ? Certainly not because of the technical superiority. Probably rather because it is a "Hasselblad". And they remember older positive experiences.

Edited February 3, 2017 by steppenw0lf

[LocalHero1953]

Yes, exactly.

 

They are all different.

 

Ideally, I would have an M10 (I've just ordered one) and an X1D but I can't justify to myself spending that much money in one go. The SL is an interesting camera, but it's not for me. 

 

I'll wait for the X1D to mature, get its bugs ironed out, see what lenses materialise (though though be honest the 45 and 90 would be fine for me), see how the GFX50s stacks up but I think it will be for different uses than mine, and pair it with my M10.

Yes, I suspect the X2D will be worth waiting for.

[Guest]

Why do many here prefer X1D over GFX ? Certainly not because of the technical superiority. Probably rather because it is a "Hasselblad". And they remember older positive experiences.

 

Size, weight, dare I say aesthetics (which also play a part). I agree with our LocalHero1953 on this, X2D may be worth waiting for.

[Peter H]

............ Why do many here prefer X1D over GFX ? Certainly not because of the technical superiority. Probably rather because it is a "Hasselblad". And they remember older positive experiences.

No, I think Fuji is just as prestigious and serious a name in photography, for what it's worth. I'm delighted with my XPro 2, and I have no reservations about Fuji's MF credentirls.

 

I expect I'll prefer the Hasselblad because of it's smaller size and

simple, more direct controls. It feels more like an M than any other non-Leica camera I've used for a very long time, and I like that. But I'll try the GFX too and I hope to be proven wrong. But it will start with a size handicap (for example the viewfinder, which sounds superb, is s mixed blessing like the SL's: brilliant but big) that its extra versatility won't outweigh for my style of photography, so it will have to have other virtues to tip the scales in its favour.

 

It will have other virtues, but I don't know yet whether they'll benefit me.

 

As I've said before, at this early stage I sense that the Fuji will be like a hugely capable DSLR compared to the XID which feels closer to an lower spec but photographically preferable M.

Edited February 3, 2017 by Peter H

[YellowBelly]

or the upcoming Fuji GFX with a 50Lux-M - link (and the image below for those shy of entering fb...).

I would like to see an adapter for xpan lenses [emoji4]

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[wattsy]

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I would like to see an adapter for xpan lenses [emoji4]

 

 

You might be disappointed. I suspect I might hold a minority view but I owned an Xpan briefly and was never that impressed by the standard lens. I remember comparing rolls of film (probably Velvia) of photos I had taken of very similar subject matter using the Xpan in panoramic format and my Leica with 24 Elmarit (that was in the days when, for some reason, I used to carry around more than one camera). The Elmarit was noticeably sharper even when viewed using my Schneider 4x loupe. 

Edited February 3, 2017 by wattsy

[ramarren]

Possibly, but not to the same degree, In my case, my attitude towards Leica and Hasselblad has been very similar - prejudiced equally in their favour from all that I know of them and their position in the photography pantheon, but approaching them with as dispassionate and analytical a mind as I can muster. ...

 

 

...For clarity, the two design choices Hasselblad made for the X1D that effectively ended my interest were:

1. the absence of a focal plane or electronic shutter = limited lens range.

2. no joystick/direction dial: neither two dials nor touchscreen are credible (IMO) for the fast, portable usage implied by the body design.

 

 

My attitudes towards Leica and Hasselblad come almost entirely from having used both marques of camera equipment extensively, alongside quite a few others. To me, both have always focused first and foremost on the total imaging quality the system was capable of, rather than just stuffing in as many features as possible to fit some marketing checklist, and on sensible ergonomics for a good shooting experience. They've always been quite different in implementation. 

 

Neither of the design choices that inhibit your interest in the X1D are much of a negative, if at all, for me. Ultimately, I do believe that I'll have the M, the SL, and the X1D: they each have their significant niche uses, and they each have a range of versatility and competencies beyond that which will satisfy me. There's a whole boatload of other equipment currently cluttering up the closet here that will go, which money will help fund the changeover to this three camera set.

[Peter H]

................

The Hasselblad seems "clinical" to me. Whereas the SL seems artistic / creative.

 

 

It feels exactly the other way round to me.

 

We're both wrong, of course.

[Belle123]

Well, I am still waiting patiently for the X1d but the Fuji GFX peeked my interest for a bit. So far keeping to the direction of the X1d simply because of ergonomics. Every time I get a Sony or a Canon, it collects dust because I don't enjoy them. The Hasselblad is more like my Leica cameras and will get used. But have seen some great images taken by the GFX that I haven't seen on equivalent level on the X1D so that is knawing at me a bit. Will someone who really can shoot please post some great images out of an X1d somewhere on the internet please?

[Jeff S]

If Leica announces a permanent fix to the S lens issues (reports suggest this might be imminent), and if S007 prices drop (maybe if Leica shows a commitment to an S008), then I would have to add the S007 to my list of cameras potentially meeting needs complementary to my M system.  Even better would be some new (and smaller) native S lenses.

 

Likewise, if future SL lenses become smaller, i.e., with the new Summicrons and beyond, then it too would better attract my attention.  

 

As it stands, the GFX hits many of my buttons....at least on paper....maybe along with an M10.

 

Lots of testing....and printing....to do later this year.  Glad I re-tuned/upgraded the back end of my camera to print workflow last year.

 

Jeff

[Joshua Lowe]

You might be disappointed. I suspect I might hold a minority view but I owned an Xpan briefly and was never that impressed by the standard lens. I remember comparing rolls of film (probably Velvia) of photos I had taken of very similar subject matter using the Xpan in panoramic format and my Leica with 24 Elmarit (that was in the days when, for some reason, I used to carry around more than one camera). The Elmarit was noticeably sharper even when viewed using my Schneider 4x loupe. 

 

I've been very impressed with the Xpan's 45/4 lens.  I have an Elmarit-M 24 f2.8 ASPH and I'll just say that lens is extraordinarily sharp.  I'd put the Xpan lens a little more into 35 cron ASPH territory.

 

If Leica permanently fixes the S lens AF issues then I'll be very interested in trying them out on the SL!

Edited February 3, 2017 by Joshua Lowe

[FlashGordonPhotography]

I've been very impressed with the Xpan's 45/4 lens.  I have an Elmarit-M 24 f2.8 ASPH and I'll just say that lens is extraordinarily sharp.  I'd put the Xpan lens a little more into 35 cron ASPH territory.

 

If Leica permanently fixes the S lens AF issues then I'll be very interested in trying them out on the SL!

 

Me too. I had the XPan with all three lenses. Never had any complaints about the image quality. I have some prints from the system still and they hold up well.

 

I'm not waiting. S lenses are brilliant on the SL. The 120mm is astounding. Yes, I've had an S lens fail. But it was immediately replaced by Leica and I have had no issues since with regular use for my 5 lenses. Plus my S lenses focus as fast as my new SL 50 'lux on the SL anyway so unless the upcoming lenses have some magic fairy focusing dust I'm better off with the S lenses and using them on both systems.

 

Last wedding I shot I used an S and SL combo and it was great. Heavy bag but fantastic in use.

 

Gordon

[IkarusJohn]

As an ex-500 series Hasselblad owner, the whole X1D concept is very appealing, I have to say. Similarly, that sensor is also very interesting. But not now.

 

Once the quality of the EVF improves, the speed improves and the inevitable glitches are ironed out, I could see the X1D in my future, with the 30 & 90 mm lenses. But, in all probability, it would replace my M system - it would have to be VERY good to do that. How good would the lenses need to be to replace the 75 Summilux, the 50 Summilux, Noctilux, 28 & 21 Summilux?

 

That's a very high hurdle ...

[Peter H]

As an ex-500 series Hasselblad owner, the whole X1D concept is very appealing, I have to say. Similarly, that sensor is also very interesting. But not now.

 

Once the quality of the EVF improves, the speed improves and the inevitable glitches are ironed out, I could see the X1D in my future, with the 30 & 90 mm lenses. But, in all probability, it would replace my M system - it would have to be VERY good to do that. How good would the lenses need to be to replace the 75 Summilux, the 50 Summilux, Noctilux, 28 & 21 Summilux?

 

That's a very high hurdle ...

 

 

 

It is a high hurdle indeed but they are quite different instruments and the comparisons aren't always straightforward.

 

You won't get a 1.4 lens for the Hasselblad.

 

But I think you have to ask a few questions before making sense of that simple fact, such as why would you want one, to start with. There may be good reasons why such fast lenses are the only solution to the problem you're trying to solve , in which case you can forget about the Hasselblad system straight away. But if it's because of the look of the photos that the lenses can produce it becomes more interesting and you'll find there are a number of differences that only you can evaluate for yourself.

 

But you know all this.

 

In the end it's a matter of the type of photography you intend to use them for. I concluded that there was no point trying to compare two different systems like this.I had to compare the different types of photography that most interest me and go for the system that is most suited to that. Which is essentially why I'm sticking with the M system for now, but will continue to explore my own photographic ideas and will move back to a different, larger format when to feels like the right thing for me personally, rather than anything much to do with which system offers better lenses or anything of that nature, because they are all likely to be superlative in their own domain.

 

But there are two types of photography that really engage me (spontaneous people-based, and slower object-based, to grossly over-simplify it) and in the end I'd like to go back to a digital version of where I once was, with an Leica M and a portable MF system. But now I need far fewer lenses than I used to believe I needed, and certainly fewer exotic ones, so I expect it to be financially reasonable now in a way that it hasn't been for quite a while.

[Joshua Lowe]

 

The 44x33 systems are new creations, with almost no connection to existing gear. So where do they belong ? It can be freely defined. Why do many here prefer X1D over GFX ? Certainly not because of the technical superiority. Probably rather because it is a "Hasselblad". And they remember older positive experiences.

 

Based on one of the GFX video reviews I watched there is a pretty big size difference between the X1D and the GFX.  The X1D looks to be similar in size to the SL.  The GFX looks to be a mid step in size between the X1D and the Pentax 645Z.  But until I actually use them I'm not making any conclusions.

 

by the way I'm kind of excited about these new terms like "MiniMF" and "4433" - it's been a while since we had a new class of camera.

Edited February 3, 2017 by Joshua Lowe

[jrp]

Yes, it's quite a choice.  The Fuji seems like a more solid choice in more senses than one.  But would you really get more out of either than adding a 50mm SL to your kitbag??

[Peter H]

Yes, it's quite a choice.  The Fuji seems like a more solid choice in more senses than one.  But would you really get more out of either than adding a 50mm SL to your kitbag??

 

 

 

You'd get something very different. 

[Guest]

by the way I'm kind of excited about these new terms like "MiniMF" and "4433" - it's been a while since we had a new class of camera.

 

+1

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[steppenw0lf]

I do my daily load of pictures with my "not so different" and regarding raw files "handicapped" SL. I am not saying that they are phantastic, but I have a big choice of them and with completely mixed topics (fast, slow, portrait, sports, close-up, landscape, UWA, tele, you name it). So very much fun for me.

But where are the phantastic images of the X1D ? What I have seen up until now is maybe of extraordinary raw quality (I cannot see it, because it is not visible in the web), but the topics are quite limited, and most of the images are rather boring (ok, only 35 and 70 mm equivalent, (45 and 90) so maybe caused by this).

No surprises up until now, not even a few interesting portraits. Mostly "commercial"-type uninspiring images. No visits to exotic places, no ppl using the X1D for creative new stuff. Mostly pros unwinding their routine jobs (their daily routine).

 

Saying that this Hassy is the best camera in the world is easy, proving it (by making others envious of the great photos) is an entirely different story.

Edited February 4, 2017 by steppenw0lf