Leica SL or Hasselblad X1D

[Guest VVJ]

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If anyone is interested in more ramblings I'll collate some more thoughts as I spend time with the X1D but, despite me thinking that the SL is comfortably the better camera, I am amazed by how compact and well thought out the X1D is and with a better EVF and some other minor tweaks am very interested in being involved in the platform as it develops. I am confident I will be in the market for both an SL2 and an X2D as they emerge... so if someone can make autofocus adapters so that I can happily cross shop the lenses I'd be happy to help fund the kickstarter campaign! 

 

Do you miss the joystick for changing focus?  I read you can use the touch panel as a trackpad to move the focus point when using the EVF but not having used the camera I have a hard time imagining how that works exactly.  

[tom0511]

Ali, one comment regarding adapting lenses: IMO here the SL wins by far. not only you can use much more lenses on the SL, you also can use them with appropriate short shutter/exp time. The electronic shutter and rolling shutter effect on the x1d means that adapted lenses are only usable on tripod or when nothing is moving (including your hands).

 

I also use both cameras. The one thing which I really dislike is the loooong startup time of the x1d.

[Alistairm]

Do you miss the joystick for changing focus?  I read you can use the touch panel as a trackpad to move the focus point when using the EVF but not having used the camera I have a hard time imagining how that works exactly.  [/size]

I should have mentioned this. I don’t miss the joystick and prefer the X1D’s approach of using the rear screen. I wish a ”double click” would center the focus point in either case.

[Belle123]

Is the image that counts most heavily. Best images I have ever gotten out of a digital camera so far, the X1d! And only because I wasn’t willing to fork over $30,000 plus for earlier medium format digital systems. The X1d is affordable by a long shot. Yes, as far as EVF, speed, etc., other cameras win. Many others, not just the SL. But I sure wouldn’t walk away from superior image quality based on a few short comings. In best scenario, keep your SL or M and get an X1d too. Personally, I am on the fence on keeping my M for the type of photography I do. The X1d is better with M glass. But, not crazy yet about the electronic shutter. Not for hand held shots.

[Jeff S]

I prefer the form factor and ergonomics of the X1D compared to the SL.... it’s one of the nicest cameras I’ve held in many years, and that’s amazing for a larger than 35mm camera. And the compact native lenses only add to the portability.

 

I’m a stickler for camera viewing systems, and have never owned an EVF based camera. But I have tested the SL and the X1D (and the GFX). I didn’t think the X1D EVF was all that that bad, even if not great. In fact, in bright light, I found the SL EVF lost detail in the shadows more easily than the X1D, and lacked full control of screen brightness (as discussed in other thread here). Having said that, there’s clearly room for improvement in the X1D EVF.

 

Jeff

[tom0511]

I am fine with the x1d EVF. 

[Guest VVJ]

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Hasselblad seems to have a good thing going on here...

 

A few things that I really like and that are not tech related:

 

1) Hasselblad seems to be aggressively pursuing their lens roadmap which is a good thing.  The excruciatingly slow pace at which Leica releases SL and CL lenses is very frustrating IMO. 

2) Hasselblad actually has a lens roadmap

3) None of that complimentary camera design measuring every feature just to make sure that systems don't overlap too much so that the small Leica target audience buys as many bodies as possible.  Very tiring.

 

I am in NYC this weekend.  I might try to get close to one.  

[Jeff S]

The SL has a lens roadmap; just not well adhered to time wise and not many new announcements.

 

Jeff

Edited March 9, 2018 by Jeff S

[Guest VVJ]

True, and I guess they just stopped visualizing it as a roadmap.  I was not only talking about the SL though, also about the TL lenses.  I have never seen anything that even closely resembles a road map there.

[Alistairm]

Having fiddled with the camera more, my initial impressions of the EVF were way too harsh. Yes, it is inferior to the SL, but I have discovered that with focus peaking OFF it is a much improved experience. What I had mistaken for breakdown and pixelation was mostly the orange overlay of the focus peaking.

 

I have been fiddling more with my M lenses today. The camera plays very nicely with the APO 50 with minimal vignetting and really shows that some of this Leica glass is built for the future, as it produces more detail on the X1D than on the M10 or SL.

Edited March 10, 2018 by Alistairm

[alib]

......... In best scenario, keep your SL or M and get an X1d too. .........

 

But what if you have both M and SL which one to let go?     

[Belle123]

But what if you have both M and SL which one to let go?   

 

That’s a tough decision. If I was in that position, probably would keep the SL if really like the speed and experience of it. I have a Q and will never let go of it. But the M, it’s on the bubble.

[Alistairm]

But what if you have both M and SL which one to let go?   

 

The M. For now I am holding onto them all. The SL is the most versatile and the X1D has the best IQ. Time will tell. but I have a suspicion I will reach for the X1D just about every time I used to reach for the M and that my rangefinder experience moving forward will be limited to shooting film.

[dancook]

The M. For now I am holding onto them all. The SL is the most versatile and the X1D has the best IQ. Time will tell. but I have a suspicion I will reach for the X1D just about every time I used to reach for the M and that my rangefinder experience moving forward will be limited to shooting film.

 

Yes I have a suspicion it would replace my M, as my 'slow down' and shoot camera.

 

But I think I might wait to see what the X2D offers.

[FlashGordonPhotography]

Hmmmm. Not sure about no 6. In my experience the X1D smacks down the SL in low light performance. By several stops. You can't over expose the 33x44 sensor too much but you can pull the shadows in stupid ways. Also the colour holds up much better at ISO1600. I think further testing will bear that out.

 

Personally I think the X1D is better in hand but I prefer the SL button layout. Personal preference only of course.

 

Gordon

[Alistairm]

Hmmmm. Not sure about no 6. In my experience the X1D smacks down the SL in low light performance. By several stops. You can't over expose the 33x44 sensor too much but you can pull the shadows in stupid ways. Also the colour holds up much better at ISO1600. I think further testing will bear that out.

 

Personally I think the X1D is better in hand but I prefer the SL button layout. Personal preference only of course.

 

Gordon

 

Gordon, as a long-term user your insights are far more valuable than my initial impressions! 

 

Alistair 

[Jared]

But what if you have both M and SL which one to let go?   

 

 

I actually just made that choice!  I had a 'Q', and 'M', a 'CL' and an 'SL' and the 'M' just wasn't getting any use.  So, I traded the 'M' and all its lenses for an X1D.  Very happy with the choice.  The 'CL' had already supplanted the 'M' for most uses that didn't require the SL. And now I can add the capabilities of a medium format camera.

 

For me, if it were 'M' or 'SL' I'd get rid of the 'M' to cover the X1D.

[alib]

 

 

....For me, if it were 'M' or 'SL' I'd get rid of the 'M' to cover the X1D....

 

Really hope the X1D is working out for you.... ?

​I ended up with the SL in DEC 2016 as a result of the delay in the X1D coming to market and I was going to work in the far east for possibly a few years so wanted to go there with an autofocus full frame and zoom. It is a great camera but I found I was not using it that much as I tend to shoot mostly wide open with my prime lenses on the M and to this day, have not attached the M to SL adapter to find out how 'easy' it is using M lenses on the SL. I should do that one day anyway. Also, I wasn't convinced by the SL50lux..... but the need to manual focus M lenses on the SL is now lessened with the new SL primes. I also, really do not want to end up with 3 different cameras. So, for me, the way forward it would seem, will be to sell the M now to fund the purchase of an SL prime lens and if I like that experience, sell some of my M lenses and then purchase the X2D which I am feeling, is just around the corner. And then take it from there... 

[Jared]

In my opinion (and I have no inside knowledge of any kind), the X2D is still at least a year off. I expect it will be based on Sony’s new 100 megapixel chip, and that isn’t shipping yet. Not even certain one can get engineering samples yet. I’d be really surprised if Hasselblad didn’t wait till they can use the new chip since it will clearly solve some challenges with the X1D like the long shutter black out. Plus the additional resolution, of course. And the relatively modest improvements from back side illumination. Plus, I doubt Hasselblad will want to repeat the mistakes they made previously by releasing the generation 2 camera before the firmware is fully baked. Less need to rush to market now that they are somewhat established as a mirror less medium format player.

 

That being said, Feel free to wait if you are so inclined. I’m sure the X2D will be a big improvement on the current camera. And maybe I am wrong and they will ship sooner? The fact that the current version has been marked down suggests either a new camera or some real pressure from Fuji. I suspect the latter.

 

The M lenses actually work quite well on the SL, at least most of them do. And they are much smaller and lighter than the native lenses. Only things you lose are AF, image stabilization, and weather sealing. Still, selling a couple to fund the purchase of native SL glass seems reasonable to me.

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[thighslapper]

In my opinion (and I have no inside knowledge of any kind), the X2D is still at least a year off. I expect it will be based on Sony’s new 100 megapixel chip, and that isn’t shipping yet. Not even certain one can get engineering samples yet. I’d be really surprised if Hasselblad didn’t wait till they can use the new chip since it will clearly solve some challenges with the X1D like the long shutter black out. Plus the additional resolution, of course. And the relatively modest improvements from back side illumination. Plus, I doubt Hasselblad will want to repeat the mistakes they made previously by releasing the generation 2 camera before the firmware is fully baked. Less need to rush to market now that they are somewhat established as a mirror less medium format player.

 

That being said, Feel free to wait if you are so inclined. I’m sure the X2D will be a big improvement on the current camera. And maybe I am wrong and they will ship sooner? The fact that the current version has been marked down suggests either a new camera or some real pressure from Fuji. I suspect the latter.

 

The M lenses actually work quite well on the SL, at least most of them do. And they are much smaller and lighter than the native lenses. Only things you lose are AF, image stabilization, and weather sealing. Still, selling a couple to fund the purchase of native SL glass seems reasonable to me.

 

Hasselblad is an even smaller company than Leica ...... and both seem to have the same issues ..... good optics and good camera design and concepts ..... but stymied by access to the sort of processing power and firmware that Sony/Fuji and CaNikon can shoehorn into their bodies. 

 

Lord knows how you are going to shove around 100mpx in a compact body fast enough to be usable, getting red hot or flattening the battery rapidly. No doubt Fuji will manage it at an economical price at some stage. 

 

I have my doubts that MF is going to make me a better photographer or make life any easier in the elusive struggle to produce memorable images.