Leica SL or Hasselblad X1D

[Joshua Lowe]

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Even if you buy a used S body the difference in price between X1D and S system lenses is massive.

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

Even if you buy a used S body the difference in price between X1D and S system lenses is massive.

 

Second hand S lenses are cheap as chips

[IkarusJohn]

Peter, I take it the nightmare is using an SL? Rather than some issue with the combination of SL and 35mm.

 

If you liked the SL (which I do), and it's great with 28mm and 50mm (which it is), I'm sure a 35mm is fine. Only having a 35mm would be my nightmare !

[phovsho]

Ok. Time for a report from an X1d owner. I am really having to super concentrate to hold steady, but in calm wind I am fine hand held. Even as slow as 60th of a second, sometimes, when lucky. 1/125th, no problem at all. But, there may be a slight movement from the shutter. Only tried it once on a tripod and results were not as good as anticipated. Probably due to wind so am thinking need heavier tripod. I may do some testing indoors to see if shutter causing movement. Anyway, I am so far very pleased and can work around quirks. The images are blowing me away, honestly. But at times I am missing Leica glass. So, good reason to hold onto my Leica gear. The Hasselblad lens is superb, don't get me wrong. Great for incredible detail, edge to edge. You can walk around with it, but extra concentration on holding steady is necessary. Can be done.

Thanks for the update. Couple of questions:

 

1, perhaps I should know having read large parts of this thread but, what types of photography are you using the X1D for?

2. are you finding the X1D has appreciable shutter lag? I'm asking in terms of catching the "decisive moment" typically involving living, moving, unpredictable people

3. Why exactly are you missing Leica glass - speed, focal range choices, size, quality? Do you see the new Lens for the X1D addressing that?

 

Thanks again for the update?

 

Murray

[Peter H]

Peter, I take it the nightmare is using an SL? Rather than some issue with the combination of SL and 35mm.

 

If you liked the SL (which I do), and it's great with 28mm and 50mm (which it is), I'm sure a 35mm is fine. Only having a 35mm would be my nightmare !

Yes, correct. And I'm exaggerating too.

[IkarusJohn]

Of course, but then ...

[IkarusJohn]

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... many a true word ...

[FlashGordonPhotography]

I bought my S knowing the X1D and GFX were coming. Thought I'd have massive buyers remorse. But it's turned out to be the opposite for me. Neither the Hasselblad or Fuji systems look like systems yet and the X1D seems to be a beta product in the wild. The S is only 300 grams heavier than the Fuji (body only) and while the lenses are heavier for the S they're all superb, even wide open. And they're all relatively fast. I love the interface although I'd prefer an EVF and off centre focusing.

 

I also have a Pentax 645Z. So I know what that sensor can do. (And regardless of a few new microlenses it's the same base silicon) Yes, it's a bit better than the 007. But not by a huge margin. Maybe a 1/3 stop extra DR. Slightly different processing to get the best from the files. Different aspect ratio. But those S lenses are something else. Not in detail. The way they render is special.

 

In 6 months or a year, I might feel differently. The X1D is still very tempting from a size/performance point of view, although I've yet to handle one. The Fuji I have used and it's great but not S system great. And Leica may stun us all with a mirrorless S. I'm sure that part of the SL introduction was a test for a mirrorless S. I also have the ability to use the S lenses on the SL which, to me increases their usefulness, usability and value. And boy are they good on the SL!!

 

The S system has had some real issues. Reliability, service times, cost. But under all that really is a great system. No one I've met who uses the S wants to give it up. They want Leica to get off their ass and announce a 50MP+ S so they can keep using those lenses. They want improved service and a real commitment from Leica as to the future of the system. They want a genuine competitor to the newbies that lets them use S glass. Right now with it's range of lenses, live view and 4K video it's probably still the best of the portable mini MF systems. In a year, if there's no new body, and Hasselblad and Fuji get some lenses out and firmwares upgraded then it might be different.

 

Gordon

[relms]

I, too, was tempted to answer the siren calls of the X1D and GFX, and I did, in a sense, by placing an order for each of them upon their announcements.  If either of them had been available at the time, I would have made the purchase, and simultaneously I would have made a huge mistake.  My frustrations with Leica were in the stratosphere at the time, but they have subsided, and I no longer feel the desire to abandon my Leica system for anything else out there.

 

More than likely, I would have traded one set of frustrations for another.  No system is perfect, and the imperfections found in the X1D and GFX are increasingly apparent.

 

Many, including myself, were puzzled by the long delay from the time of Hasselblad's announcement of the X1D to their actually getting it to market.  As it turned out, that was a perfect delay; it was the length of time I needed to get over my frustrations with Leica's sluggish response to my issues, and for me to move beyond my fascination with the new MMF offerings as I read more about them from reviews and those "lucky" enough to obtain an early release copy.

 

My problems with Leica gear included a corroded sensor on the S2, and the same problem a few months later with an S006.  Throw in a couple of AF issues with S lenses, and I had finally reached a point where I was ready to swallow hard, take my losses, and move on to something else.  I realize now what I foolish mistake that would have been.   Leica ultimately resolved all the issues, and they did it at no cost to me.  

 

One of my old fishing buddies once commented to me a few years after leaving his wife of 20 years for a younger woman, that "Love can last a lifetime, but so can the pain of regret if you f?#@ something up."  I am once again happy with my renewed and reaffirmed relationship with my Leica equipment.  It brings me pure joy in its use and in the results I get.  I am firmly back in the Leica camp, never really having left, but having been persistently tempted.  I'm mighty glad I stayed.

 

Oh, I will certainly be tempted again, but next time it would be for the M10 or the 50+ MP mirrorless S if that should happen.  Until then, I am taking some pretty good pictures (IMO) with this old equipment I have in my back pack.

 

Robert

Edited March 18, 2017 by relms

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

I, too, was tempted to answer the siren calls of the X1D and GFX, and I did, in a sense, by placing an order for each of them upon their announcements.  If either of them had been available at the time, I would have made the purchase, and simultaneously I would have made a huge mistake.  My frustrations with Leica were in the stratosphere at the time, but they have subsided, and I no longer feel the desire to abandon my Leica system for anything else out there.

 

More than likely, I would have traded one set of frustrations for another.  No system is perfect, and the imperfections found in the X1D and GFX are increasingly apparent.

 

Many, including myself, were puzzled by the long delay from the time of Hasselblad's announcement of the X1D to their actually getting it to market.  As it turned out, that was a perfect delay; it was the length of time I needed to get over my frustrations with Leica's sluggish response to my issues, and for me to move beyond my fascination with the new MMF offerings as I read more about them from reviews and those "lucky" enough to obtain an early release copy.

 

My problems with Leica gear included a corroded sensor on the S2, and the same problem a few months later with an S006.  Throw in a couple of AF issues with S lenses, and I had finally reached a point where I was ready to swallow hard, take my losses, and move on to something else.  I realize now what I foolish mistake that would have been.   Leica ultimately resolved all the issues, and they did it at no cost to me.  

 

One of my old fishing buddies once commented to me a few years after leaving his wife of 20 years for a younger woman, that "Love can last a lifetime, but so can the pain of regret if you f?#@ something up."  I am once again happy with my renewed and reaffirmed relationship with my Leica equipment.  It brings me pure joy in its use and in the results I get.  I am firmly back in the Leica camp, never really having left, but having been persistently tempted.  I'm mighty glad I stayed.

 

Oh, I will certainly be tempted again, but next time it would be for the M10 or the 50+ MP mirrorless S if that should happen.  Until then, I am taking some pretty good pictures (IMO) with this old equipment I have in my back pack.

 

Robert

I wish I could have written that..................these are my settlement too

Thanks Robert same same here

[Jeff S]

I wish I could have written that..................these are my settlement too

 

 

But only you could have (mis)written this one line.  

 

Jeff

Edited March 18, 2017 by Jeff S

[Belle123]

I crack up at everyone picking apart and justifying their decisions to buy or not to buy medium format. There is no perfect camera! If you appreciate medium format, you'll love it. I wouldn't hesitate even to get the Fuji GFX. If you are waiting for the 'perfect' medium format, your eyesight will probably fail before one is produced. But if your primary thing is speed, stick to 35mm. All I can tell you is I am floored by the images am getting out of the X1d. If you can't see the difference, oh shucks.

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

I crack up at everyone picking apart and justifying their decisions to buy or not to buy medium format. There is no perfect camera! If you appreciate medium format, you'll love it. I wouldn't hesitate even to get the Fuji GFX. If you are waiting for the 'perfect' medium format, your eyesight will probably fail before one is produced. But if your primary thing is speed, stick to 35mm. All I can tell you is I am floored by the images am getting out of the X1d. If you can't see the difference, oh shucks.

 

What images????

[ramarren]

I crack up at everyone picking apart and justifying their decisions to buy or not to buy medium format. There is no perfect camera! If you appreciate medium format, you'll love it. I wouldn't hesitate even to get the Fuji GFX. If you are waiting for the 'perfect' medium format, your eyesight will probably fail before one is produced. But if your primary thing is speed, stick to 35mm. All I can tell you is I am floored by the images am getting out of the X1d. If you can't see the difference, oh shucks.

 

 

Indeed.

 

I'm happy with my setup as is ... full Leica SL system, modest Leica M-D compact kit ... and I'm also happy with the decision to wait on the X1D until the 22mm and then 120 Macro are available, make a decision then as to whether I want to spend the money. The total package of what I have now does what I want well; the addition of the X1D for ultrawide squares and high-resolution macro work would complement it. Much of the rest of the debate seems pretty ephemeral to me: I already know the X1D ergonomics and controls will do me just fine and have complete confidence that Hasselblad's lenses and sensor tuning are up to snuff.

[thighslapper]

I crack up at everyone picking apart and justifying their decisions to buy or not to buy medium format. There is no perfect camera! If you appreciate medium format, you'll love it. I wouldn't hesitate even to get the Fuji GFX. If you are waiting for the 'perfect' medium format, your eyesight will probably fail before one is produced. But if your primary thing is speed, stick to 35mm. All I can tell you is I am floored by the images am getting out of the X1d. If you can't see the difference, oh shucks.

 

Every now and then I have to remind myself with the question .... 'and what exactly are you going to do with these wonderful h-res images ?' 

 

There is little available that will display 50mpx images, and although I can print A2 I rarely do as I cannot plaster the whole house with huge photos ..... and neither print nor screen show the full dynamic range either.  

 

I have no doubt medium format produces a superior image ....... but I just can't for the life of me see what I could actually do with it ...... and the alternative  as a closet pixel-peeper seems to be on the verge of perversion or at the very least deeply anorak. 

Edited March 18, 2017 by thighslapper

[Jeff S]

Every now and then I have to remind myself with the question .... 'and what exactly are you going to do with these wonderful h-res images ?'

 

There is little available that will display 50mpx images, and although I can print A2 I rarely do as I cannot plaster the whole house with huge photos ..... and neither print nor screen show the full dynamic range either.

 

I have no doubt medium format produces a superior image ....... but I just can't for the life of me see what I could actually do with it ...... and the alternative as a closet pixel-peeper seems to be on the verge of perversion or at the very least deeply anorak.

With prints it's not just about size, it's often more about tonal transitions, color and a certain 'presence' or 'roundness' that's hard to put into words. The bigger file also allows for more PP or cropping without deterioration.

 

I'm a firm believer that each pic demands its own print size...some intimate, some grand. One must be careful not to let the gear force aesthetic decisions... but it's good to have the option.

 

That said, the quality of gear is so high today... across manufacturers.... that choices are often more about ergonomics, controls/interface, lens choice, etc, than about sensor size. That's why I'm still weighing options including both 35mm and MF (well, pseudo MF by film standards).

 

Jeff

[Belle123]

Every now and then I have to remind myself with the question .... 'and what exactly are you going to do with these wonderful h-res images ?' 

 

There is little available that will display 50mpx images, and although I can print A2 I rarely do as I cannot plaster the whole house with huge photos ..... and neither print nor screen show the full dynamic range either.  

 

I have no doubt medium format produces a superior image ....... but I just can't for the life of me see what I could actually do with it ...... and the alternative  as a closet pixel-peeper seems to be on the verge of perversion or at the very least deeply anorak.

 

Oh shucks.

[FlashGordonPhotography]

Every now and then I have to remind myself with the question .... 'and what exactly are you going to do with these wonderful h-res images ?' 

 

There is little available that will display 50mpx images, and although I can print A2 I rarely do as I cannot plaster the whole house with huge photos ..... and neither print nor screen show the full dynamic range either.  

 

I have no doubt medium format produces a superior image ....... but I just can't for the life of me see what I could actually do with it ...... and the alternative  as a closet pixel-peeper seems to be on the verge of perversion or at the very least deeply anorak. 

 

So what if all someone does to appreciate their images is zoom into 100% on a screen? It's their hobby and if that's how they choose to get enjoyment from it, so what? They're not entitled to pursue their hobby in a way that gives them some happiness?

 

As long as they're not hurting anyone each individual should enjoy their photography however they see fit. So I don't see the problem if someone wants high res just to enjoy it on screen.

 

And high res and medium mini MF are different things. There are 35mm cameras close or at the resolution of the X1D. But those cameras don't produce files that look quite the same as on a different sized sensor.

 

And I'll think you'll find that the differences in DR do show up in print, if done properly. Otherwise we'd all be shooting the M9 still.

 

Gordon

[Guest VVJ]

Otherwise we'd all be shooting the M9 still.

 

Some of us still do... I really do not need 15 stops of DR to shoot people... YMMV...

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Hallo,

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[jrp]

The images from the new Fuji and Hasselblad are very attractive even on forum-sized images.  (The Pentax images were probably as good, but I have never seem them.)

 

The SL's images seem to want to try to push everything that it close to neutral towards neutral, which means that the pictures look less balanced.