Yet another 90mm lens question

[ECohen]

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Armed with information I will start my search....and now its going to be fun

​I think one last trip to Thorsten Overgaards site for a history lesson and Im on my way.

My sincere  thanks you for all for the help and generous advice

EC

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[skater75]

I like the look & feel of 90 APO Summicron on MM 246. Fully open @2.0. For the candid portraiture shots:

 

http://rasfokus.ru/photos/photo2105009.html

[ldhrads]

I have a thin TEM and a pre APO Summicron 90.  While I've taken some very nice portraits with the Summicron 90, it's big and heavy.  The thin TEM is a remarkably good lens and I cannot recommend it higher if you can find a clean one, you should be fine.  Look at my recent post on the "old lenses on the monochrom" thread to see a few recent shots.  Like the Elmar C 90/4 it's light and small which lends itself to being carried. Unlike the Elmar-C, it has a max f2.8 which is quite nice wide open IMHO.

[Jared]

I have owned three different 90mm Leica M lenses over the past few years, and each had its strengths and weaknesses.  The first one I owned was the 90mm Summarit f/2.5.  It was surprisingly good optically, considering that the Summarts at the time were considered Leica's "budget" lenses.  It only focused to 0.9 meters, and the contrast was a bit lower than I would like wide open, but chromatic aberration was actually well controlled and the lens just worked well.  I bought it used, and it came without a hood.  I think the newer f/2.4 version may have the hood included?  Not sure.  It's actually a very good general purpose lens.  I hated the rubber focus ring, but there was nothing else wrong with the lens.  

 

There was also nothing about it that seemed really magical.  I got some good photos with it, but nothing to write home about.  Naturally, like all good photographers, I blamed my equipment and decided what I really needed was a 90mm Summicron Asphere, so I went and found one used.  With careful testing, the Summicron ASPH was definitely superior to the Summarit.  Improved contrast at f/4 and below.  I never noticed a difference at f/5.6 or above (as you would probably expect).  It was a great lens indeed, but I had a problem with this lens as well.  I couldn't consistently focus it accurately enough to shoot it wide open.  The only way I could work with the extremely narrow depth of field was to use the electronic viewfinder on my M, and i really hated using the EVF.    Great lens, but almost never used it.  It was also big and heavy (by 'M' standards, at least).

 

I ended up buying a used Macro Elmar-M, the model immediately preceding the current one (with the reversible metal hood).  It only goes down to f/4, but I found I couldn't consistently focus at 90mm with the Summicron below f/4, so that wasn't really a loss.  It's much smaller and lighter than the Summicron and takes great pictures.  In theory, something in the f/2.8 would be better for portraits, but I find that I prefer 75mm for that use anyway.

 

For me, the ergonomics and design philosophy of the various 90's had a much bigger impact on their usefulness than the actual image quality.  I really like the small size of the Macro Elmar M, plus it focuses a bit closer (even without the macro adapter) and it performs especially well inside 10m though it's no slouch at infinity.  I think the best image quality is at f/5.6 on this lens rather than the more typical f/8.  

 

As far as a couple of the questions you have asked... No reason to avoid the "made in Canada" lenses.  They are every bit as good as their "made in Germany" counterparts.  The lenses themselves have evolved over the years, and newer optical coatings and glass materials have given the optical designers more degrees of freedom in their designs, so in general the image quality has been improving with the newer models.  That said, the older lenses are no slouches, and many people prefer the lower contrast "dreaminess" of some of the older designs when shot wide open.  I'd recommend you try and handle the lens you are thinking of buying before you make the purchase.  If that's not possible, I'd give preference to a used lens from a reputable source over a new one.  That way you won't necessarily lose much (any?) money if you decide to sell your lens because it wasn't the right choice.  Any of the lenses mentioned in this thread are capable of taking absolutely fantastic pictures in the right hands. 

 

Here is a sample pic I took last February in Torres del Paine, Chile.  1/180s, f/11, ISO 50 on my SL.  It's a great lens--small, light, high quality, flare resistant, everything a 90mm should be.

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[Guest )-(]

I don't think there's a bad 90mm lens in amongst all the options discussed, that's the bottom line in whatever you opt for. They're all going to exceed your requirements imo. Just stick with a Leica s/h dealer so you can have more confidence in the condition.

 

I've had four - Summicron-R, and in M mount the thin Tele-Elmarit, APO and Elmarit-M (E46).

The latter is the one I'm left with now as my personal best compromise between size and performance.

 

The 'pre APO' Summicron in M or R is my personal favourite but I prefer something a little smaller.

 

The APO is an amazing lens too as witnessed above.

Just get one of each and spend the next 10 years eliminating them back down to 1!

[ECohen]

Thank you to all for what was a very confusing subject for me ...The history of Leicas 90mm lens.

I took delivery of a, like new,  late model (1999 or 2000) 90mm f/2.8 Elmarit-M., #11807

Your  advice, education and patience was very much appreciated

 

[lct]

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Great lens. You won't be disappointed. Some copies need calibration on digital bodies though. Easy to check with an EVF

[jmahto]

I love results of my 90 Macro Elmar-M. It is so sharp that I can easily crop half the image (equivalent to 200mm FOV) and still get sharp 8x10 print. A very light weight versatile lens.

 

The pic below is from last weekend
https://flic.kr/p/KEopNX

[ECohen]

 

Great shots, the Macro is truly an amazing lens.
 

One thing I learned from over thinking my 90mm choice ....There are a lot of right choices out there.
 

Looks like you had a great weekend.

[jmahto]

 

 

Great shots, the Macro is truly an amazing lens.

 

One thing I learned from over thinking my 90mm choice ....There are a lot of right choices out there.

 

Looks like you had a great weekend.

 

Yes, it was fun day sailing in 20KT wind. I had my M with 90mm on my shoulder all the time while handling the ropes, whereas my friend's D810 with big zoom was resting in the cabin most of the time. Guess who got better pictures.

 

And I agree, there are many good choices. This is why I have two 90mm lens although it is my least used focal length. Other than macro-elmar also have 90mm tele-elmarit-m "thin" which is quite nice when corner to corner sharpness is not needed. Sometimes I mount it onto my crop sensor Sony Nex and have a very compact and lightweight effective 135mm solution to compliment my M with wide angle lens mounted.

 

I also have come to appreciate use of short tele FL. Over period of two years I have moved from using 135mm/200mm to 90mm. Unless I am shooting wildlife/birds, 90mm is just perfect for portraits, some reach and if needed, crop extends it further if you limit to A4 print size.

 

Example of my tele-elmarit's output (I guess it was f/4) below. Your elmarit will be even better and more versatile.

https://flic.kr/p/sbgLro

 

[ECohen]

This is a great group.... If I had the choice of two,

90mm tele-elmarit-m "thin" and the current Macro would have been my choices as well.

 

I opted against the Macro because I wanted to lean more towards a people lens and the clinical sharp Macro seemed like I would be  too sharp ....I'd be softening everything...in post.

And I thought the tele-elmarit-m "thin" would be soft, focused close .....for nature stuff.

 

So I thought I would split the difference.. go with a late model elmarit-m.......and I found one in great shape.....or I'd still be looking
 

I  like the color and quality of your shots, very M240...sharp, warm and very pretty....nice job

[jmahto]

This is a great group.... If I had the choice of two,

90mm tele-elmarit-m "thin" and the current Macro would have been my choices as well.

 

I opted against the Macro because I wanted to lean more towards a people lens and the clinical sharp Macro seemed like I would be  too sharp ....I'd be softening everything...in post.

And I thought the tele-elmarit-m "thin" would be soft, focused close .....for nature stuff.

 

So I thought I would split the difference.. go with a late model elmarit-m.......and I found one in great shape.....or I'd still be looking

 

I  like the color and quality of your shots, very M240...sharp, warm and very pretty....nice job

 

You correctly characterized the two choices. Certainly your elmarit-m is more versatile for people (with f/2.8) and nature both. I am sure you will enjoy it.

 

I got my thin elmarit since it was cheap. It was my first 90mm lens and I knew that I was  not going to use much. Later I started appreciating what it could do.

 

Here is one portrait from thin elmarit at f/4. You can see the soft "glow" in the 1-1 crop. It is very subtle though. With the results like this, I decided to keep it.

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[jmahto]

Went through the entire thread just now. Very good info from knowledgable forum members.

 

One thing I would like to add for USA members is that KEH is a very good and reliable seller of used equipment. They are quite knowledgable and you can speak to them as well before pulling the plug. eBay is also ok if there is good return policy. Testing a lens for suitability to personal needs doesn't take more than a day. Return it if you don't like.

(Disclaimer: I am not affiliated with keh)

[ECohen]

When I started looking for a 90 I only knew which focal length I wanted and what I wanted to use it for .......In order to fill that need there is a Leica history lesson that goes along with your choice.

With the help of this group I did my homework and learned the history of the Leica  90mm....which was interesting...... down to the serial numbers
I only wish I could have had the fun shooting with each variation.
I miss the local camera shop where you could poke around the used case and take something home for a test drive
 

Thanks to all...... for now the GAS is satisfied

[jmahto]

 

When I started looking for a 90 I only knew which focal length I wanted and what I wanted to use it for .......In order to fill that need there is a Leica history lesson that goes along with your choice.

 

With the help of this group I did my homework and learned the history of the Leica  90mm....which was interesting...... down to the serial numbers

I only wish I could have had the fun shooting with each variation.

I miss the local camera shop where you could poke around the used case and take something home for a test drive

 

Thanks to all...... for now the GAS is satisfied

 

Highlight mine...

 

I don't know about the others but for me knowing about history adds to the overall appeal. For me my possessions (camera, car, mobike, bicycle...) are more than the sum of all parts mainly due to their past history. Some history comes from the brand and some personal history gets added from my own experience. This makes the mechanical stuff lively and soulful (for lack of better word).

[ECohen]

Point well taken ....you are most likely right.... but I don't think of cameras that way. I bought the M240 after a long career as a photographer, simply to get back to a less complicated  camera.
 

All I wanted was a 3 lens kit for "my kind" of photography. Sort of amusingly I seem to have jumped into a collectors world ...and I'm not really a collector of anything......I can see that's changing
 

This group is amazing and you are all so willing to teach a novice  ......Give me another few hundred posts and a few more lenses I can see myself wanting to paint with even more subtle brushes.

I must admit every detail I learn about the history of Leica.....I'm getting more and more hooked.
 

 

[jmahto]

 

Point well taken ....you are most likely right.... but I don't think of cameras that way. I bought the M240 after a long career as a photographer, simply to get back to a less complicated  camera.

 

All I wanted was a 3 lens kit for "my kind" of photography. Sort of amusingly I seem to have jumped into a collectors world ...and I'm not really a collector of anything......I can see that's changing

 

This group is amazing and you are all so willing to teach a novice  ......Give me another few hundred posts and a few more lenses I can see myself wanting to paint with even more subtle brushes.

 

I must admit every detail I learn about the history of Leica.....I'm getting more and more hooked.

 

 

 

I should be honest and say that I don't feel that way always for my each and every camera... but given enough time, everything has history. Take my current backup camera, Sony Nex-6. This camera has been with me through some memorable times. Once I was caught in intense thunderstorm and managed to get some nice lightning shots (see below), thanks to it's intervelometer. My M was useless in that case. My Nex doesn't even has a case while M240 sits in a protective soft pouch. But now I love my Nex-6 for what it has done for me. I kind of get attached to what I use day in day out.

https://flic.kr/p/x268HY

[pgk]

I took delivery of a, like new,  late model (1999 or 2000) 90mm f/2.8 Elmarit-M., #11807

IMO this is one of Leica's Gems. Its an underrated lens. About its only 'flaw' is marginal chromatic fringing on high contrast edges - which can be virtually eliminated in software - but I'm nit-picking. It handles well, takes E46 filters and is solid and heavy enough to make a well balanced package with an M series camera body. I've had two - stupidly sold the first only to have to re-buy another. I've taken some of my favourite shots on it (I'd show my 'best' but its on Getty's site so I can't) and although its not a lens I always carry, I do so more often than not. I've owned numerous Leica M 90s over the years - in fact the only three that I haven't owned are the Apo-Summicron, macro and Summarit - but the Elmarit-M is the one I'd opt for without doubt. Apo would be nice (cannot justify), macro holds no appeal as I have numerous macro lenses already and the Summarit is probably not far off the Elmarit-M but having handled it I still prefer the Elmarit-M. And its another of Walter Mandler's wonderful designs.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M