Why is the Leica Q shutter so much quieter than M cameras?

[jacelech]

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I spent many years years using M6s and missed their shutter quality after moving  to the digital Ms. The 240 was an improvement over previous models, but when I tried the Q I was struck by the quiet shutter and wished that, from now on, all Leicas could be like this. The camera has some limits, but the shutter is wonderful. Why is it so much quieter than other Ms? 

 

Thanks everyone,

 

Jacek

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[Mr.Q]

Because the shutter is in the lens, a leaf shutter.

[jacelech]

formula for a new exchangeable lens system?

[millsart]

formula for a new exchangeable lens system?

 

Not that I would think.... its just a leaf shutter, which is quite common on many fixed lens cameras like the Sony RX1, the Fuji X100, Sigma Merrill's etc. 

 

Advantages are they are quiet and can also sync at very high speeds, 1/2000th in the case of the Q, which allows for some great daytime fill flash

[stevieboy]

A leaf shutter in the lens in an interchangeable system would of course mean you'd have to buy a shutter every time you bought a new lens, plus whatever electronics the lens would need to communicate the shutter control and operation with the camera.   

[millsart]

A leaf shutter in the lens in an interchangeable system would of course mean you'd have to buy a shutter every time you bought a new lens, plus whatever electronics the lens would need to communicate the shutter control and operation with the camera.   

 

It would be one self-contained unit.  You wouldn't separately purchase a lens assembly and then go and buy a leaf shutter for it.   Wouldn't really look to different than any other lens, and many large and medium format lenses contain leaf shutters.

 

On one hand it would no doubt increase the cost of the lens, but on the other hand, it would mean that if a shutter went bad, you could put a different lens on your camera body and keep on shooting.  Something you can't do when you have a focal plane shutter die, get stuck etc. 

[stevieboy]

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It would be one self-contained unit.  You wouldn't separately purchase a lens assembly and then go and buy a leaf shutter for it.

 

Of course.  But you'd still be paying for a shutter every time you bought a lens.

[Herve5]

Of course.  But you'd still be paying for a shutter every time you bought a lens.

True.

 

I think that's the case for Hasselblads -you know, those cameras whose cost, weight and size are ten times the ones of a Leica ;-)

 

(OK, they also have the largest possible pixel count on the market -something most of us definitely will never need, but the fact tells a lot about optics quality, too)

 

H.

 

-an interesting discussion about why leaf shutters are interesting (in addition to their silence ;-) , specially when using flashes  http://www.kern-photo.com/2013/01/why-leaf-shutter-lenses-matter/

[earleygallery]

Leica chose the focal plane shutter when they made the first models back in the 30's (although they did make some leaf shuttered lenses too). 

 

Given that they've stuck with that design for all these years, I don't think they're suddenly going to think, hey! we can make a new M with leaf shutter lenses!

 

There were other rangefinders with leaf shutter interchangeable lenses, and some which had the leaf shutter built into the body but changeable lens elements such as the Kodak Retina or Agfa Ambi Sillette. 

[jacelech]

The only other recent Leica shutter I have found that compares, although not quite as quiet,  is the SL, but still much quieter and smoother than the Ms. 

 

I keep wondering if Leica is trying to draw closer to the kind if quiet shutter many of came to associate with M usage in the field, or if these are simply coincidental changes that some of us keep looking for.

[XVarior]

The only other recent Leica shutter I have found that compares, although not quite as quiet, is the SL, but still much quieter and smoother than the Ms.

 

I keep wondering if Leica is trying to draw closer to the kind if quiet shutter many of came to associate with M usage in the field, or if these are simply coincidental changes that some of us keep looking for.

Also the new M246 seems to have a very silent discrete shutter mechanism. I was impressed by its click-sound. I would say 50% quieter than the one on the M240!

[jmschuh]

I spent many years years using M6s and missed their shutter quality after moving  to the digital Ms.

Can you see the "shutter quality" in your images? ;-)

 

Leica M3-M7 (MP etc.) = Focal-plane shutter with a dual-cloth-curtain with horizontal-travelling-slit

Leica M8, M9, M240 = Metal-bladed focal-plane shutter with vertical-travelling-slit

Leica Q = Leaf shutter as central shutter in the lens or electronic shutter above 1/4000 up to 1/16000

 

Wikipedia:

 

The main advantages of central and behind-the-lens leaf shutters compared to a focal-plane shutter are:

 

• Flash synchronization is possible at all speeds because the shutter opens fully, unlike a focal-plane shutter sliding a slit relatively slowly across the film for a short effective exposure.

• Small size is possible as the shutter is placed where the bundle of rays is narrow, either inside or just behind the lens.

• Usually much quieter.

• More realistic photographs in high speed follow-through—lateral focal plane shutters compress or elongate the image in such cases.

• Longer shutter life.

 

A disadvantage of the central leaf shutter is:

 

• For an interchangeable lens system, each lens has to have a shutter built into it.

[Herve5]

Can you see the "shutter quality" in your images? ;-)

(...)

The main advantages of central and behind-the-lens leaf shutters compared to a focal-plane shutter are:(...)

All the pros and cons you list are exact. Few you can really see in an image (e. g. the camera is more compact and silent, full stop)

 

As for what can be seen, I don't have any experience in high-speed photo, but I can tell you the superfast flash sync allows you to control external (non-flash) light WAY better -indeed you can almost eliminate a full sun in backlight by increasing the speed.

 

There is an example in the article I mention in my earlier post that is striking IMHO (the married couple) : you trigger straight in front of the sun, and just almost delete it ;-)

Strikingly enough, while the extraordinary sensitivity and aperture of this camera may actually allow to replace flashes with simple small torchlights, this fast flash sync alone may be a reason to keep one...

 

(Also in my case at least, there are many places where the almost totally silent Q fits much better than any other cameras I got, which definitely impacts what will be on the picture...)