A question about digital sensors and old lenses.

[the warrior]

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I have a question.

 

I am not a technician but I really think can habar differences in the use of ancient and modern sensors objectives.

I am asking this question to see the super-Angulon f4 - F3.4 sensor digital, on the edges of bad color, etc.

Really worth using old lenses in a CCD or CMOS ?.

It is best to use only old lenses only with film ?.

 

Is this a problem throughout the sensor or only at the edges ??.

The new lenses ASPH and retro-focus designs are specially designed for digital sensors, these sensors appear to be created for the light to reach them so difertente, sides, differently from how it does in the film .. .. then what are the real results of the old lenses on the side edges of the CCD sensor ???

SOME TECHNICAL STUDIED THIS?.

The photographs look good but what's behind all this?.

Thank you.

[lct]

I'm no techie at all so take whay i say with a pinch of salt but i'm not sure that CCD and CMOS sensors behave differently here. AFAIK both have the same issues depending upon pixel size, thickness of sensor stack and steep angle of light rays hitting the sensor. To take but one example my Sony A7s mod with large pixels and thin sensor stack has less problems with M wides than my Fuji X-E2 with smaller pixels and thicker sensor stack. Also on the same camera, two lenses of the same focal length will behave differently depending upon how close they are to the sensor. The design of the new Summicron 28/2 (left) is self explanatory from this viewpoint.

 

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[uhoh7]

M9 will shoot almost every old M and LTM lens extremely well, except a few old ultra wides.

 

Worth using them? If you like them on film, or just like them, yes.

 

You mention the old 21 which is one of the very few that does not do well.

[k-hawinkler]

I'm no techie at all so take whay i say with a pinch of salt but i'm not sure that CCD and CMOS sensors behave differently here. AFAIK both have the same issues depending upon pixel size, thickness of sensor stack and steep angle of light rays hitting the sensor. To take but one example my Sony A7s mod with large pixels and thin sensor stack has less problems with M wides than my Fuji X-E2 with smaller pixels and thicker sensor stack. Also on the same camera, two lenses of the same focal length will behave differently depending upon how close they are to the sensor. The design of the new Summicron 28/2 (left) is self explanatory from this viewpoint.

 

LeicaM_2820v1_v2_comp.jpg

Hi lct, which mod version did you get, v1, v2, or v3?

[uhoh7]

V2 is "the one"

 

I sent the v3 back for it.

 

50cron circa 1984 (not old) on the A7.mod a few days ago:

 

Late Bend by unoh7, on Flickr

[250swb]

 

Really worth using old lenses in a CCD or CMOS ?.

 

It is best to use only old lenses only with film ?.

 

Is this a problem throughout the sensor or only at the edges ??.

 

.

 

Yes it is well worth using old lenses on M9 and M240 generation cameras, the results can show some lenses were better than the film they typically got used with. But with wide angle lenses the colour towards the edges of the frame often needs to be corrected by either using a lens code that works, or alternatively by using Cornerfix. Otherwise the old lenses offer a wide variety of characterful rendering and the mid to longer focal lengths don't need any special corrections in post processing.

 

Steve

[lct]

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Hi lct, which mod version did you get, v1, v2, or v3?

 

 

No idea but i bought it in November 2015.

[JOCO34]

Each lens has it's own character and provides different image quality. FYI some lenses cannot be used with digital sensors because the rear helicals or parts of the lens can come in contact with parts of the internal mechanism causing damage. Two lenses that come to mind are the 50mm f/2 Dual Range Summicron and I beleive all collapsable lenses.

[Ecar]

Two lenses that come to mind are the 50mm f/2 Dual Range Summicron and I beleive all collapsable lenses.

 

The DR can be used with adapters or modification of the focus cam.

Actually, most collapsible lenses can be used safely.

[Leicaiste]

I'm no techie at all so take whay i say with a pinch of salt but i'm not sure that CCD and CMOS sensors behave differently here. AFAIK both have the same issues depending upon pixel size, thickness of sensor stack and steep angle of light rays hitting the sensor. To take but one example my Sony A7s mod with large pixels and thin sensor stack has less problems with M wides than my Fuji X-E2 with smaller pixels and thicker sensor stack. Also on the same camera, two lenses of the same focal length will behave differently depending upon how close they are to the sensor. The design of the new Summicron 28/2 (left) is self explanatory from this viewpoint.

 

LeicaM_2820v1_v2_comp.jpg

 

 

I was the one who posted this picture of the two version of the 35/2 Asph.on the forum and it was a mistake.

 

The back of these two lenses are the same. On the picture on the left the back was cut out.

[lct]

I don't recall what you've posted sorry but what i posted above where the pics of current and previous 28/2 (not 35/2) lenses copied from the Leica site. Do you think there is a mistake with those pics as well?

LeicaM_2820v1_v2_comp.jpg

[TRIago]

My 50mm Rigid is so old but so sharp on my M9. Gotta love it.

[lct]

I don't recall what you've posted sorry but what i posted above where the pics of current and previous 28/2 (not 35/2) lenses copied from the Leica site. Do you think there is a mistake with those pics as well?

LeicaM_2820v1_v2_comp.jpg

 

Could be. Where's the 9th element?

 

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[Rick]

Each lens has it's own character and provides different image quality. FYI some lenses cannot be used with digital sensors because the rear helicals or parts of the lens can come in contact with parts of the internal mechanism causing damage. Two lenses that come to mind are the 50mm f/2 Dual Range Summicron and I beleive all collapsable lenses.

 

 

Actually, the Dr 50mm can be used, but the near focus helicoid binds if you try and focus at the near setting.  But, it doesn't ruin anything by trying.  You can send the lens to DAG camera and have the near portion of the helicoid milled off (as I have done) and you will have the advantage of the near focus range on the M if, you utilize LV to focus as the RF is not meant to focus in the near portion of the lens without the goggles.

 

Rick

[Rick]

I was the one who posted this picture of the two version of the 35/2 Asph.on the forum and it was a mistake.

 

The back of these two lenses are the same. On the picture on the left the back was cut out.

 

The new 28 Summicron pictures are correct.  The new lens does not protrude into the camera as much as the old version.  The exit pupil has been moved forwards along with a lot of other significant changes.   There isn't a problem now with smearing in the edges on the M.  The new Summicron is quite an improvement and is pretty much a new lens with a similar lens design.

 

Rick

[Jeff S]

 

It is best to use only old lenses only with film ?.

 

 

 If so, there would't be so many threads dedicated to old lenses with digital, e.g.....

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/110554-m8-and-old-glass/page-1

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/186858-the-view-through-older-glass/

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/217375-vintage-lenses-on-the-m-post-your-images-here/page-1

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/193239-old-lenses-on-the-monochrom-post-examples-here/

 

Jeff

[Rick]

The new 28 Summicron pictures are correct.  The new lens does not protrude into the camera as much as the old version.  The exit pupil has been moved forwards along with a lot of other significant changes.   There isn't a problem now with smearing in the edges on the M.  The new Summicron is quite an improvement and is pretty much a new lens with a similar lens design.

 

Rick

 

 

I received the new 28 Summicron today and I have to correct my post. 

 

The rear of the lens is exactly the same as the old 28  Summicron.  It is not cut off as shown in the Leica pictures.  Leica has cut off the back of the lens in their photo with Potoshop!

 

I made my statement above based on Sean Reid's review. He posted his pictures which shows the rear of the lens truncated.  I thought he took his own picture.  Apparently he used the Leica photo, not his own.  

 

So, unlike recent reviews, the lens does protrude into the camera body the same as the old lens!  And, I once again got suckered into another year of Sean Reid and his garage paraphernalia board... which is not a test at infinity where the rear of the lens is closest to the sensor.

 

Sorry for my error to those that stated otherwise.  

 

Rick

[Tailwagger]

I have a question.

 

I am not a technician but I really think can habar differences in the use of ancient and modern sensors objectives.

 

I am asking this question to see the super-Angulon f4 - F3.4 sensor digital, on the edges of bad color, etc.

 

Really worth using old lenses in a CCD or CMOS ?.

 

It is best to use only old lenses only with film ?.

 

Is this a problem throughout the sensor or only at the edges ??.

 

The new lenses ASPH and retro-focus designs are specially designed for digital sensors, these sensors appear to be created for the light to reach them so difertente, sides, differently from how it does in the film .. .. then what are the real results of the old lenses on the side edges of the CCD sensor ???

 

SOME TECHNICAL STUDIED THIS?.

 

The photographs look good but what's behind all this?.

 

Thank you.

 

The 21mm SA is specifically known to have compatibility problems with the M9 onward. Its been discussed here several times, if you do a search.  Personally, I find most of the modern lenses too contrasty. The average age of my lenses is over 30 years old.  Wouldn't have it any other way.